this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
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I want to like Linux and leave Windows, but when I say that I don't want to be forced to use CLI/terminal because I don't live in the 1970s, people get angry at me.
If all you do is web browse and play games, you should be able to use Linux without the CLI just fine.
I installed Ubuntu in a VM to torrent with mulvad. I had to go to the command line. Worse was googling gave multiple contradictory instructions that further reading yielded "deprecated".
I made it work because I've been doing it for 30 years. Anyone else would be better with Windows where it just works.
This is the most Lemmy interaction I've seen in awhile:
...
...
I'm not complaining, just watching in admiration of you all.
I mean. I don't mind CLI, but I found it ridiculous that there seems to be no default text editor on Ubuntu. Like, I couldn't look into a text file without pulling up the terminal.
The Linux community is able to agree on many things... But what you ask... It's just too much...
(I'm making a humorous reference to the constant arguments about the best editor... But... Also conceding your point.)
Do we not have a default graphical text editor?
I'm enough of an editor snob that I don't even know what the default is... If there is one.
I can see how I'm probably part of the problem, in this case.
Yeah, it's kinda adorable to watch actually.
Huh, why not just use QBittorrent? I've never even felt the need to reach for the command line with torrents (Linux ISOs of course) because it works so well.
been on Linux mint for a year now and the only time i use the terminal is to git push to update my website. so far, nothing else I've been doing has needed the terminal.
Git does have a desktop version with a GUI, but the CLI is much simpler
does it? because I've looked and have only been able to find things that will tell me the status of my repository but not actually let me simply click a button to commit and push.
You brought this on yourself, you realise that, right?
Then don't use the terminal. You don't need it.
Yes, eventually I learned how, but the vast majority of tutorials on how to install or do anything on Linux jump straight into it.
And as a software developer, a lot of tools I come across don't have an official non-terminal installation option.
So here's the thing: providing support is much easier on the command line.
Also if you think about it, insisting that people who provide support or documentation use the system the same way you want to use it so they can show you how to use it is pretty weird.
Hold on there: did you say you're a software developer? Can you do us all a favour and put GUI-only on your CV?
.
Uh-uh..
For CLI programs I agree, but I've come across GUI programs for which the official installation instructions were CLI only (like Android Studio).
I'm not GUI-only, I just strongly prefer it. My CV does contain me having years of experience developing GUI programs.
OK, again, as a hiring manager I would really appreciate you stating your preference for GUI-based computing on there. It will save both of us a lot of time.
Yikes
It's a preference, and I may complain about it on social media, but I know things are how they are and I'm not so hung up on it as to let it affect my work.
Worst case I would take a few minutes between tasks to quickly whip up a GUI helper, but I think that in 10 years I only did it 2 or 3 times.
Tbh if you develop GUI apps then be the change you want to see in the world and develop some GUIs for some FOSS that only has CLI. When someone who isn't a dev complains about a lack of GUI in FOSS I usually explain how these projects are made by volunteers who are usually unpaid rather than billions of corporate microsoft dollars funding everything, but in your case honestly it really feels more like a nut up or shut up situation.
So you're saying that you don't want to put it on your CV?
I don't think it's relevant, I can use CLI and terminal just fine and if it's required to do my job then so be it.
I think it's absolutely relevant. You've inspired a new interview question.
The CLI does some things so fast though. I myself like bypassing the gui and interacting more directly. Same reason I only drive manual cars and grind my own coffee (autistic?) But yes, I am glad linux has a gui and we shouldn't force the cli on people who grew up with ipads.
any tips for learning manual?
Find a friend with one, otherwise the key is to be smooth and really feel the clutch engagement. It's different for every vehicle. Its a balance between clutch and gas. With a lower power car you'll need more gas to balance while letting the clutch out. With an old manual truck, you pretty much need no gas input to get going because of torque. Another good way to learn could be just pick up an old g27 or g29 wheel (they have 3 pedals and a shifter either h pattern or paddles) and learn that way with a racing simple like LFS, Asetto Corsa, or Automobilista 2.
Depending where you live there's all sorts of sub $800 manual cars. That's how I learned (rusty $500 crx)
ffmpeg is one of the things where I prefer the CLI. It's crazy powerful, and does some insane things in pretty simple commands. I've seen a meme that says half the internet is just wrappers for ffmpeg, and I'm inclined to agree.
Also, as an arch user (btw) pacman / AUR are a much better experience than having to hunt down the installers for everything online.
Similarly, the right CLI tools make searching for files across my entire computer much simpler and way faster than I could ever do with a GUI
I don't want to be one of the people you think is angry at you, but I do want to proselytize a bit.
have you ever used a dedicated download manager? think of the terminal, first, as a dedicated download manager. All you do is type wget and then paste in the URL.
eventually, you may want to specify where the file goes, or what it's named when you finally download it, or something else. then, you can look up which flags to add with
wget -hI suggest you try Linux, any flavor, but especially Debian or Debian variants. instead of thinking you need to learn to use terminal, just remember that you have a dedicated download manager called terminal.
The thing is you will eventually learn that the terminal does a lot more than called wget. and you already know how to get help, and add flags.
Silly to get angry about, because you can use Linux just fine without it. But the terminal is a powerful tool.
If you say it like that you are pretty much trying to aggravate them, though
No one is forcing you to learn it, but you do need it for getting out of trouble.
The CLI is the fastest way of getting things done if you know what you're doing.
you most definitely do need to use it on Linux, especially if you have a Nvidia graphics card... Audio issues are also prevalent.
Not once in the 11 months and 3 updates I saw when still on my nVidia card did I need to use terminal for anything, as there's a built-in program for that on Mint (and a couple other distros at least, looks like)
OpenSUSE. People don't seem to give it much love, but their system settings application YaST makes command line usage completely avoidable for average users. Even for power users, YaST makes command line usage optional rather than necessary for most tasks.
While this was true 10-15 years ago, nearly all popular distros include graphical configuration tools that are as good or better than Yast these days.
Cli usage on Linux is entirely optional these days on most Linux distributions, but once you learn a bit of cli use you actually realize that it can be a very helpful tool.
I don't think anyone is arguing CLIs aren't useful, pretty sure we all know that. It's not like you see the l33t haxxorz in movies tearing through GUI windows. We're saying we don't want to have to rely on it to do stuff frequently, for one reason or another.
And as far as saying it's optional, I must be a power user, because even on Ubuntu I felt I couldn't do much of anything without opening CLI.
IMO one of Linux' greatest follys is demanding perfection to the point where everyone just tries to make the superior way of doing things, then you end up with a mess of different ways to implement the same things. It's like that joke about coding languages, each one meant to be the final perfect language. Like with installers, on Windows you're generally going to get an exe, an msi, or some compressed file type that you just need to drag files into their location. Linux? I can't even tell you how many different methods I've seen for installing various things, none of which seems to be the "standard". Even compression seems to be way more all over the place, on Windows I only ever really see 7z, zip and rar, but I've seen a dozen different compression types for Linux files. That's incredibly confusing for dumb people like me.