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Like:
People should be allowed to exist
Social programs aren't communism
The system isn't working for the people
Edit:
I've changed my mind on this.
Let the DNC go full MAGA and when they lose, because they will lose, they get the heat and we can eject them forever. At least sit them in a corner.
Progressives, you fight if you want but I don't believe the elections will be fair so it's a win win for you.
Yeah I don't believe you. People aren't saying that. That is you taking the liberty of recharacterizing their thoughts.
im not even from the US and i see this shit constantly on Lemmy
You should have seen Reddit immediately after the election. Democrats were pissed and decided latinos were responsible, posts like "How do I report my neighbours to ICE?" raised to the top, and everywhere people were blaming "those backwards hispanics and their horrible culture" If anything it just confirmed my view that democrats are not a leftist party by any measure.
I have been accused of loving Democrats for saying things like "what are Democrats supposed to do about voters who would let trump win?" It's as though nuance was outlawed and people cannot understand that a problem can have multiple causes.
And yes I've heard all that about being inspiring. The reality is that educated people would've made very different voting choices. Americans are incredibly ignorant. Democrats can't hypnotize people into not being idiots
I find the concept of "voters were just to dumb, cant do anything about that" to be quite representative of what is wrong with the party. It is elitist, it is factually false and it is deeply undemocratic.
except education levels are tied to voting bloc amid republicans attacking education
so that cam be true and the democratic party be shit at the same time
Yes I'm aware that people think nonvoters are helpless and then somehow find that better than being dumb
What Democrats are supposed to do is sell those voters on a platform of meaningful change that addresses their fears and concerns. It's a candidate's job to win voters over to their side, and if they can't do that, you have to actually ask questions about what went wrong and learn lessons from it instead of throwing your hands up and declaring it's everyone else's fault but the DNC's. Otherwise that attitude is what will lead to doing the exact same thing in 2028 and getting the same results.
The worst of the mindless drivel I find so incredibly frustrating. Things can have more than one cause, as you're so clumsily trying to ignore. When voters need convincing to exit a burning building, that would indicate a problem with their mentality as well. I'm done arguing about this extremely simple concept.
The point is that blaming voters isn't actionable or useful. It isn't a lesson we can learn for 2028. And when that's what people keep deflecting the conversation to, it sure seems like a way for the DNC to avoid taking responsibility.
When you ask the question "what are Democrats supposed to do?", the answer is not "nothing".
Rendering the voters blameless is ignoring a reality that necessarily is a part of strategizing moving forward.
No shit? They didn't do "nothing", they did ineffective things half assedly. But sure it's really helpful just to think of everything as black and white. It's been working out SO well recently. Now, get back to defending not voting as somehow blameless
What do you think should be learned from this past election, and what should Democrats do differently going forward? Answering that question is what matters. Laying the blame at the feet of non-voters is pointless because it's the Democrats' job to inspire those people to vote for them. The last thing I want to see Democrats doing is crying that the voters are too stupid and avoiding all responsibility.
I personally voted for Kamala and agree that was the right choice to prevent Trump from winning, but not everyone is perfectly rational at all times and in all ways and you need to get over it and adjust to that reality instead of going "oh, woe is me. I am oh so smart and everyone else is oh so stupid. It's their fault we're in this mess and there's nothing the Democrats can do about it." Taking responsibility is more important than placing blame.
A valid and good question that we should talk about. Obviously we need better candidates, standing up against the these rich fucks, and better messaging. We need a good platform we don't back down from, namely, something like building a decent healthcare system.
Binary thinking that absolutely destroys a chance at conversation/progress. The fault is not all on one group. I cannot fucking stand the fact that people need to make it that way. Those who did not vote are incorrigible, and pretending to have certainty of democrats' ability to magically persuade them of anything is ridiculous. Those non voters have to be considered. Just because you cannot make a direct immediate action to force them to do anything doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge and consider that their extreme shirking of responsibility is their fault, full stop; insane to contest that. What's more complicated is who is to blame for the election going to trump. You could write a 900 page book on the topic. Y'all want 2 sentences and be done with it.
You don't understand. Whether or not I feel superior to those people isn't what matters. I mean, this is like the toddler shitting its pants being unmentionable because if I do, I'm bragging about being potty trained. We don't need or have to brag about something like that. We have to think about what it takes to get those people to vote, yes, but my other issue people is acting like democrats going "radical" (other people's words, not mine) is a panacea.
There's this tendency to want to blame one group and make every problem simple and it's not helpful. "Oh if democrats would just go more left than most of americans, that will fix everything. those idiots!" is enraging, simplistic, and ignorant. That is the thought process I'm pissed about.
If you believe this, then why do you have such a problem with people calling for the Democrats to move left? This is exactly what we're all asking for and somehow you're offended by it despite claiming to agree with it. I don't understand your position.
The faulty assumption you're making is that most Americans would disapprove of the Democrats going more left, and I can prove it. Here's a list of "lefty" progressive policies that the Democrats have abandoned and their approval ratings:
Medicare for All shows majority support in nearly every poll.
55% support raising the federal minimum wage.
An overwhelming majority support ending citizens united.
59% support the green new deal.
79% support raising taxes on the rich.
These numbers vary by single digit percentage points from poll to poll, not enough to change the conclusion - that progressive policy is overwhelmingly popular - which is why it's so frustrating that you're defending Democrats shying away from those policies to appeal to a mythical "moderate."
You are mischaracterizing what I'm saying and doing. I keep repeating it, but one more time: I do not like the false dichotomy that it is either one group's fault or another. Lazy non voters are largely to blame.
You've gotta be trolling me.
There are plenty of them if you lurk long enough. They will harp "vote blue, no matter who" and repeating the meme "leopards ate your face". The litmus test is to mention that Democrats did not go left enough which is why people voted for Trump (who promised the always appealing tax cuts amidst the growing inequality and radical reshoring of companies), and blue MAGA will bury their heads in the sand and keep calling Latinos, black folks and white working class and others who are working three jobs, living pay check to paycheck, and can't afford to pay for medical insurance as ignorant, racist, misogynists, Uncle Toms, etc.
Sure it was stupid to vote Trump, but it was more stupid of Democrats to lose to an orange man by not appealing and refusing to acknowledge those who have economic anxieties brought by mismanaged globalisation. It would have been an easy victory, but blue MAGA and DNC do not want to alienate the same donors that fund the Republicans (I mean, look at the screenshot where it says to court big donors instead).
Average red fascist preferring literal fascists to the dreaded Shitlibs(tm)
You have it the other way around. It is the Shitlibs(tm) preferring literal fascists by not going left enough on common sense policies that the rest of other developed countries take for granted. By not running on popular policies, Shitlibs are tacitly allowing literal fascists to take power. Instead, all the Shitlibs/blue MAGA say is "I am not my opponent. And you will be happy with our breadcrumb policies or the other guy wins! (But we don't care, we get paid by our corporate donors regardless)"
You couldn't be more transparent if you tried
I appreciate you clearing up your AgEnDa
Of course Third Way and neoliberals still think we're in pre-recession era when appealing to moderates still work in the face of growing wealth inequality. If your way is the only way, why keep losing?
On its face, your idea falls apart on even the slightest inspection. This thread is full of that and we don't need to pretend everyone calling you out needs to rehash it
Which party lost twice and will only keep losing?
Scroll up and down. You can find plenty of well worded arguments that dash yours to pieces. I'm not spending more of my mental health on you.
Right, let me put it another way. If Dem strategy works, why are they losing?
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results." No wonder mental health is affected and keep losing because blue MAGA keep banging their heads to the wall for the past 10 years.
Third way had gone its way. It is time to move over.
Lol did you forget they won big last time? And no I don't say this to comment on their strategy at all. Just to show your criteria is meaningless and moronic. Now go away
Cope
So, the fact that the pendulum has reliably swung back and forth for ... 150 years? ... is of no consequence. If you aren't a troll, you seem to be admitting to being a 16 year old who hates history class.
Yes, of course. Someone with affluenza who never has to deal with consequences of wealth inequality say that.
That makes zero fucking sense. I'm not affluent whatsoever and you have zero reason for thinking that. Blocking this troll. Recommend others don't feed them.
Surveys have actually showed many rich people never thinkof themselves as affluent.
"They didn't go far left enough; therefore, the smarter choice was to vote for the furthest right option available."
👏
Tell me more about these popular policies. Or rather, tell me more about their popularity in the US electorate.
They didn't offer any meaningful change at a time when voters were upset with the status quo, therefore the voters chose a fascist who was offering something rather than nothing.
At the end of the day, we lost. And we have to talk about why we lost if we want to learn any lessons next time.
Doesn't make it a smart fucking choice. If anything, context makes it stupider.
And unfortunately, 'policy wasn't left enough' isn't the answer.
Dem policy should move leftward, mind you. But not because it'll win us votes. Policy is of marginal importance to everyone save a handful of terminally educated political junkies like us. Dem policy should move leftward because left policy will be better for the country and move the country itself left in the long-term.
Elections, though? We have to win those using different criteria than "What's good for the country."
Or at least, we did. God knows if we'll have meaningful elections again at this point.
So we agree that the DNC did not make a smart choice?
Oh yeah, the DNC made many incredibly stupid choices. Choices both specific to this last election, and more long-term as part of a general pattern of ineptness, mediocrity, and complacency. In any just world, probably a good 90% of them would be out of their jobs, and their names blackened forever as the nitwits who lost American democracy.
Just at the end of the day, the fascist fuckwit should not have been regarded by anyone with more than an ounce of gray matter in their head as an acceptable alternative.
Well the voters did pick the fascist fuckwit, and if we don't want that to happen again then we have to have a deeper conversation, rather than terminating that conversation with the unhelpful observation "voters bad."
Because the point here should be to ask real questions about what we're gonna do differently next time. Deflecting away from our candidates' failures is an attitude that leads to doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Not trying to deflect, but to remind everyone that the failures of the candidate and party are largely not policy-based. "We should have just gone left!" and other easy answers are tempting, but like Bernie and Corbyn, will not bring victory in and of themselves. And the enthusiasm for those answers is often enough to drown out any potential sober analysis, especially in a community as left-leaning as Lemmy.
This user's recent post is a pretty good indicator of how little they understand
Edit: downvote all you want, binary thinkers