this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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Explain exactly how using a Chinese app will negatively impact the average American. Don't use vague threats, use evidence based examples. I'll wait.
“Chinese app”? I’m sensing some defensiveness here.
Using any for profit data harvesting app has great financial incentive to negatively impact anyone, evidence based government back-doors or not.
I’m sure there’s some lovely Chinese-made fediverse wrappers or locally hosted communities with good moderation. Idk, I don’t speak Chinese.
Have you ever been on tiktok? You will lose braincells quicker than drinking gasoline.
It should genuinely be considered self harm to have a tiktok account.
I don't disagree, but I also feel the same about X and Facebook and neither of them have copped a ban.
Yes, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
I'd rather no moderation than one sided political moderation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica
I agree with you, but that's a Meta scandal. If anything it proves that the right move would be to regulate the platforms. Not just ban foreign ones.
Oh yes, I agree! I provided an example of a TikTok campaign in a later comment. It's not the source that's the problem, it's that everyone is trying to manipulate (but the ones controlling the platform have way more feedback and control, of course).
You've gotta be more specific than chucking a wiki link to a UK data company, champ.
If you're not aware by now that social networks are vectors for influencing people's political opinions, you're living in the wrong decade, amigo.
It allows any pos to spread their garbage misinformed opinions as facts. its full of adult weirdos making softcore porn knowing the platform is full of minors and many intentionally targeting their content towards them. Its full of grifters peddling pseudoscientific supplements, cosmetics, medical advice etc. Its full of rwnj and pseudo progressives from all over the world spreading populist propaganda. It also makes it easy for any anti social pos to get famous.
That's Twitter too.
which is banned where i live
Sorry, are you describing X or Facebook with your comment?
China controlling the narrative might be a bit worrying. Not sure how much that reflects in the daily life of a single person but for societies it does have some implications.
It's no more worrying than the misinformation being spread on Facebook and X, in large part by Russian troll farms or Murdoch's media empire, but somehow it's China that's the real problem. I see no reason why anyone should be fear mongering about the dangers of using a Chinese app any more than using X.
I mean imo all sort narrative building and interference is worrying and from a government perspective of course foreign actions and platforms are more worrying. China and Russia being very clearly rivals if not outright enemies of the US, it is more worrying because of that.
Any enemy of the US is a friend of mine
Sounds a bit naive
And yet this ban does nothing to stop Chinese or Russian troll farms from spreading misinformation and using the outrage algorithm to further fracture the American public on American platforms.
This legislation is not about stopping bad foreign actors, this is purely a way to protect the business interest of American social media companies.
I'd imagine it's much easier for the US government to control stuff, if it wants to, when it comes to American companies. That probably plays a role.
What makes you think that? They haven't so far, despite proven Russian troll farms operating on American platorms. I think you've inadvertently reversed the order of master and servant there.
What makes me think that American companies are easy to police for American government than Chinese companies? It seems a bit of a weird question in that of course that's the case. If they want they can raid their HQ, they can (and probably do) have a relationship with these companies in intelligence gathering and law enforcement level. Companies are more willing to follow your rules if the repercussions are more severe, with their workers, hq and so on being in the US.
It's obvious that there's a better ability to control and police the company, but it's different whether they do use that ability.
"we could totally police American companies, it's just that we don't because they own all our politicians".
I'm glad we're on the same page.
Don't go around assuming everyone is American
There's a a lot of laws binding those companies and then there's everything going on behind closed doors which people aren't told about. I'm sure they're already doing a lot of policing when it comes to narrative, data, all that sort of things. Why they let Russians act so freely, I'm not sure, I think there might've been an ideological or political reason behind that.
It's like how American movies and shows are pushing certain narratives. I doubt there's need for any laws and public acts to make it so, rather it's just understood and things happen behind closed doors. How much the US can control foreign, especially say Chinese media productions, of course it's going to be less capable of doing that.
Trump for example has bullied social media companies to do as he says without official acts, just threats and fear of possible action. Easier to bully local companies than foreign ones.
I think you can sum our sides of the argument up with: who do you think is in charge - Trump or Elon?
Are we still arguing about if the American government has a better ability to control local or foreign companies?
The ability and the will are two entirely different things.
Right, and that was brought up very early on by me, but the argument was about ability
Ability is immaterial if you don't have the will to exercise it.
It's like I'm talking with a golden retriever
I'm not sure why you keep pursuing this circular debate. My entire point has been it doesn't matter if it's a foreign app or not if the government has no desire to control domestic social media due to the fact that the billionaires who own it are directly responsible for electing said government.
You keep bringing up the ability to bring them to heel like it's in any way relevant when I've seen no evidence of meta or X in any way being forced to moderate their platforms - in fact the opposite has been proven abundantly true in the last 10 years. Stop trying to rely on "well maybe a foreign app might be harder to control hypothetically, despite the fact that American apps are completely uncontrolled". It's irrelevant to the reality of the situation we have now and therefore a flimsy excuse to protect domestic billionaires interests.
I didn't wish a circular debate. You engaged in one, retreading things already said (by me no less) right at the start. It's baffling.
You were arguing about the ability. That's probably why... lol. The whole thing is really simple. American government would rather deal with local companies that they can exert more power over, had they the inclination to do so. Makes them more at ease.
It was never about ability, you brought it up and I countered with the fact that ability means nothing if you don't enforce it...... Aaaaaaand then you brought up ability again like it's relevant.
Why in god's name would you think ability to exert control over a company wouldn't matter to the US government..?
Because they never exercise it in respect to social media?
See how you can't see past this one simple concept and keep circling back?
You don't think it's important for them to have the ability, the assurance of that? I'm not circling back but rather just trying to help you to understand their pov.
What, you think the government thinks "oh we don't care about having more control over social media, we're not going to use that anyway, might as well let China have that control"? I mean come on lol.
You still think this is about exerting a control they have yet to exercise, instead of the far more obvious thing I've repeated about 5 times and you've ignored each time:
THIS IS PROTECTIONISM FOR AMERICAN SOCIAL MEDIA MAGNATES.
I mean I've always held the view that it's both. It was just the control thing that seemed to be a hangup for you.
It's both, just that it's really about one of them and the other is just a cherry on top.
Don't try to frame this as a hangup of mine and act like you haven't been thoroughly participating in this debate in a way entirely hyperfixated on "it's about control". You're better than that.
I'm not sure how you've been reading this whole thing but it's sorta the part you disagreed with so that's what the discussion became about