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Remind me how peaceful and great the previous 800 years were for your average French peasant?
Didn’t they have more holidays back then
Oh you just care about French peasants? God forbid you check out any other country and what they did instead. It must be fucking violence and war with you people.
I’m fairly confident France was by far one of the nicer more progressive places to live, I don’t think your argument improves if you talk about a russian serf. Britain might be a good example, but Britain absolutely liberalized because they were afraid of the same violence - the threat becomes a lot more real when your neighboring royalty lost their heads.
Sure, except from what I've read most liberalization we care about didn't happen until the 20th century, at least 50 years after the 1848 uprisings, and at least 100 years after the French Revolution. That speaks to a certain lack of urgency. But no, there were commoners all over Europe, and the world. The French were not special. We even have modern examples of getting out from under dictatorships and oligarchies. They mostly involve having so many people in the street that it's impossible to stop them. I can count the number of modern armed rebellions that worked on one hand, and they're a puppet of Turkey now.
The only thing a French style revolution is going to bring us is battles with no prisoners, political inquisitors committing mass murder, and foreign troops trying to maintain a semblance of order near Mexico and Canada to contain the violence and possibly secure our nuclear warheads. Then people are going to be tired of all that and they'll run to the nearest strongman. In the best case scenario those guys will make an alliance and actually end the fighting. In the worst case scenario we balkanize like Afghanistan and then everyone supports a theocracy because at least most of us are Christian and it's unifying. Except it's the worst most fundamentalist version because it's led by a strongman type too.
They say politics and economics are unique sciences because you can't run experiments properly. But we can absolutely dissect history and figure out what to avoid.
ok, but these conversations do absolutely nothing but flourish your creative writing skills. I have no clue what you and @Shiggles@sh.itjust.works are talking about but vague references with no real data or links to follow along or personally interpret.
What did you read?!?!
Why did you not even give one example!?!
The main problem is people just say shit to say shit. Almost everyday I'm actually having to look up multiple tabs of shit from comments because "everyone knows the truth" (or at least so emotionally invested in their own truth they won't even consider they might be wrong or read something false).
And now to follow along with both of you I have to abstractly search using websites that are just fucking abysmal to actually use the search function on, instead of just one little tiny link pointing me to a passage or reference. It just makes me want to tune out the conversation because there's already too much shit I have to learn and do everyday. I WANT this information though, I think history is important but it just looks like two people arguing over interpretations of data that we have no clue of.
Read? A lot of stuff, mostly in college and then specific areas of interest afterwards. I would suggest starting with classic liberal ideology and then tracking down the implementations of it in this specific case. If you disagree on the "reforms we care about" that's fine. I define it as universal suffrage, the right to bargain with your employer, and universal healthcare.
Examples? I did give one, Syria. Yeah it was a bit oblique, they're effectively a puppet of Turkey for now which is why the possibility of Russians being allowed to stay was alarming to NATO countries. It looked like Turkey might be trying out a Russian friendship. There's also Ukraine, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, India, South Korea, etc. I'm not going to make an exhaustive list.
The important thing is some people think the French Revolution was cool songs and Hugh Jackman rescuing pretty girls. It was not. It featured fun things like Mass Drownings. And the Nantes was just convenient, the other Representatives on Mission were just as bloody, only less creatively. And the entire time this was going on France was fighting a civil war against Royal Loyalists across the country.
If you really want to get into this stuff I highly recommend getting to know a site like JSTOR. they have something like 100 free articles a month and a 20$/month subscription available for unlimited if you run into issues. Unfortunately time is a major component and even more fun is researching the researchers to weed out the authors with a large bias.