this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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NonCredibleDefense

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[–] jia_tan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 125 points 1 day ago (11 children)

Famously transporting large volumes of hydrogen has never gone wrong and hydrogen charging stations have proven very reliable and also hydrogen as an alternative to electric is definitely not a ploy by big oil to keep drilling for fossil fuels!

Good job hyundai 👍 Very credible 👍🏿

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

H2 tanks are safer than diesel. It would make a superior tank to diesel in most ways. Quiet, electronics power, portable solar charging in forward position, H2 production in solar rear stations. In war, having all of your large oil refineries and port handling blown up the first day is common, and decentralized and portable H2 production is an important asset.

ROK while leading on H2, is way behind on both solar transition projects/roadpath and have abandoned solar technology themselves. Government does serve its industrial champions but also serves US master. US wants to subjugate colonies to its NG. Industrial champion needs clean energy independence.

[–] FleetingTit@feddit.org 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Do you even realize how much energy is needed to produce significant amounts of hydrogen and then compressing it to a useful pressure? FOB solar isn't going to cut it. Decentralized H2 production isn't a viable thing without fossil fuels or a working power grid.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

For sure, field charging of tanks should be through DC. But H2 is the solution for energy abundance that is 100% renewables based. To have enough energy every day from renewables needs surpluses on most days, and H2 production is the best use of those surpluses because it is transportable/exportable energy that happens to be cheaper than electric transmission.

[–] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Military vehicles are purpose built. They didn't use hydrogen because it was green, they used it to fulfill their requirements for a silent stealth battle tank. But I'm sure your technical knowledge far outdoes that of the people involved in designing this tank 👍 Very credible 👍🏿

Fuel cell technology will also dramatically reduce the noise the tank generates when on the move.

Literally from the article you failed to open.

[–] jia_tan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I thought this was a shidposting community

I do actually agree with everything you and other people in this thread have said, I just don’t care :3

And yes my technical knowledge definitely outweighs the knowledge of hundreds of Hyundai engineers, thank you for noticing <3

I am Jia Tan and I approve this message :3

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 34 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

My dude, the military transports more volatile materials than hydrogen every day. Just because something doesn't make sense for civilian use doesn't mean it's never going to be viable for military use.

If you're worried about the dangers of transporting something like hydrogen, you're going to lose it when you find out what bombs are made out of.

Electric motors are just more efficient in just about every way at scale, the current diesel motors being used in tanks aren't really able to be improved upon. They're at their technological peak, so the only way to move forward with mbt is by figuring out how to make electric motors work.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 0 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

An unarmed bomb can be dropped from cruising altitude onto a hard surface and not detonate. The US military has had nukes fall out of planes without breaching the radioactive core.

Also, the energy density of hydrogen is pretty poor, diesel electric hybrid on the other hand is a proven technology.

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago

An unarmed bomb can be dropped from cruising altitude onto a hard surface and not detonate. The US military has had nukes fall out of planes without breaching the radioactive core.

And yet you don't think they could produce the same safety features for less volatile materials?

diesel electric hybrid on the other hand is a proven technology.

Yeah, you just have to add a diesel engine, electric engine, and a giant battery.....The whole point of moving to electric is to increase efficiency and decreasing the weight of primary motive components.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 77 points 1 day ago (4 children)

No no, it’s credible because it decreases the ground weight, and if you fill it up enough, it can just float over AT mines 🤓

From Hyundai to Hindenburg very fast 👏 👏 👏

[–] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago

Science man smart!

[–] eggymachus@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 7 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Heh yeah, though it’s also an Iain M. Banks reference

[–] eggymachus@sh.itjust.works 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I kind of lost track of his books in the early 2000s, but they're still among my favorites. Gone too soon :/

Absolutely. I was heartbroken when he passed :(

[–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yes that is the sound that the compressor makes when it puts the hydrogen in

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 39 points 1 day ago (8 children)

In the case of military vehicles, hydrogen is about the greenest option that we're gonna get. No one is going to make a battery powered AFV, because where the fuck would you charge it?

[–] DrunkenPirate@feddit.org 41 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

Who if not the Germans built an electric tank in 2020 https://efahrer.chip.de/news/geraeuschlose-einsaetze-weltweit-erster-elektro-panzer-kommt-aus-deutschland_103179

Sounds crazy at first but comes with some good advantages: it can cross rivers as it doesn’t need air for combustion, it’s silent, and you can load it anywhere at the battle field if you have solar panels, time and sun. Still you can rely on military logistics to carry a swap battery. But isn’t the military supply chain the first target to disrupt? My two cents, this is the next thing at battle fields.

Oh, and if all your equipment runs on electricity, you can load and reload power at your needs. Tank needs power but car not? Combat robot out if power and car is full? Transfer the power

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 hours ago

Range of tanks is not super important other than blitzkrieg strategy where refueling infrastructure catches up. Even under blietzkrieg, tanks eventually get into a siege position and solar can be enough to sustain their position indefinitely. H2 is the best quick refueling method for electric heavy vehicles. A dispenser can be hidden 1 mile or so behind the front lines. Production facilities can be portable and moved forward

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 0 points 8 hours ago

And if your tank is electric, it can be modified later with a small nuclear or fusion reactor.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Honestly if MILITARY applications are what kicks renewable energy and mass storage into high gear, I won't be surprised, but I will be disappointed.

But hey, improvement is still improvement and if a military organization sees renewable as the future, they're gonna try to make sure they get there first. As long as whoever gets there shares the progress with the rest of the world, I'm okay with it.

But who am I kidding, it's gonna be China or the US and the rest of the world won't see shit for decades due to suppression of research and technology that would allow for similar specs to be achieved privately...

... How credible is my aluminum foil hat guy?

I must admit though, it'd be cool to see an armored combat battery sliding across a field to quick charge a tank that died mid-battle. 10 seconds of charging to get it up and running, and the battery moves to the next low power thing. I'm imagining a semi-autonomous hot-swap of a battery compartment and eventually recharging like modern airplane mid-air refueling. Insert Rod A into Slot A and wait a little bit. The faster they want it to charge, the more they'll dump into R&D.

[–] DrunkenPirate@feddit.org 3 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Just wait some years - they have solid state batteries close to industry ready. That means huge increase in capacity and no issues with temperature.

Next stage will be structural batteries where you take the structure as battery. For a tank that means all the armour will be charged and work as battery. Just a matter of years.

Loading time is solved already. It’s a matter of battery temperature while infusing power and solved by battery management software.

Any idea why the Boston Dynamics robots aren’t on a battle field? I mean the do incredible stunts. It‘s the battery. Lasts for around 2-3 hours. Today. Military is working on that, I‘m pretty sure.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 6 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Carrying volatile chemical energy on the outside of your tank seems somewhat unwise.

[–] Aphelion@lemm.ee 3 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

There are other types of batteries that don't involve volatiles, like water batteries or metal-air batteries.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 points 21 hours ago

Yes, but structural batteries won't make proper armor. The material demands are simply nowhere near compatible.

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Any reasonably sized pv installation near a battlefield will definitely not look suspicious on reconnaissance images.

[–] DrunkenPirate@feddit.org 7 points 23 hours ago

You think less suspicious than these huge petrol storages in a city?

PV can be dismantled, if needed. I bet it’s even cheaper to replace when destroyed compared to petrol storage. Anyway, future will tell

[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Tanks are going the way of the battle ship though. Drones are doing a lot of the stuff they can do, and a lot of things they can't.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 hours ago

Drones also seem to be good anti-tank and anti-ship weapons.

[–] xavier_berthiaume@jlai.lu 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not super familiar with the matter, but what do you mean by "going the way of the battle ship"? Do you mean they're becoming more obsolete because of their size/utility compared to drones?

[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That, and expense. Tanks cost millions, while a $5k drone with an RPG strapped to it can take it out and exploit the weak spots.

[–] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 5 points 20 hours ago

Ultimately these small drones are still pretty vulnerable. I’d imagine the next/current generation of automatically targeting point defense weapons will be the solution.

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[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Isn’t hydrogen even more flammable and explosive than petroleum. Just seems like a dumb idea to put that in a military vehicle.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago

It is less so. Also safer if tank ruptured.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 day ago (18 children)

Yes, obviously, putting explosives and projectile propellants in an armored vehicle is dangerous and should be avoided

/s

OSHA is not a credible military threat

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[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 8 points 1 day ago

You'd probably want a quick swap battery and charging far from the front lines.

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