this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
213 points (98.2% liked)

politics

19132 readers
3942 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Evidence is to respected, except for where it upends personally preferred narratives. This can be, and often is, true for any human who has preferred narratives, I'm afraid.

Anyway, what you posted isn't the kind of evidence that's really the problem. The issue is one of morality and logic. Some people say "stop killing innocent people", and others agree that killing innocent people is bad, but Americans must (at least temporarily) accept the killing of brown children in a far-off country in order to reduce harms in America, and for Americans to hold their nose as they vote.
This is not how morality works, though, and it is not how logic works, either. Logically, if harming the innocent is wrong, then it is wrong to do so even as a sacrifice for the greater good of those who you live amongst. Morally, I wouldn't press a button to kill a stranger in another country to make my life better, and I wouldn't judge someone else who did that positively. Instead, these ideas are practical. It is a practical concern to ignore morality and logic. But I'm not someone who elevates the practical above the moral certainty that hurting innocent people is wrong.

 

Some people raise the beguiling spectre of the trolley problem, which is a shit thought experiment when used to explain real-world harm.

Source: medium

In 1976, Judith J. Thomson expanded the problem into the classic version that most of us know today.

Would you push a fat man off a bridge to stop a runaway trolley from killing 5 workers on the tracks?

This version is not just about switching tracks, but brings the moral issue much closer to home by saying if you want to save 5 people, you yourself have to push someone off a bridge.

To make matters worse, these are also the only two choices that you have. There is nothing else you can do; there is no escaping the problem.

[...]

Like many philosophy instructors, I have given this thought experiment to my students many times. In my philosophy classes, Students of all levels and ages are repulsed by the experiment. They think that it is stupid that there are only two choices and that there is nothing else they can do.

[...]

But something I have never seen given much consideration is the initial response that my students and so many others have to the problem.

[...]

Our intuition is that if we are in a lose-lose moral situation where the right moral action does not feel satisfactory, then someone else made a bad moral decision already; leaving us holding the bag.