this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
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The problem of Susan (file.garden)
submitted 4 weeks ago by h3mlocke@lemm.ee to c/microblogmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] Montagge@lemmy.zip 35 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Is "The Problem of Susan" some incel Narnia fanfiction?

[–] SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 89 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Technically, it's a short story by Neil Gaiman. Practically, it's definitely Narnia fanfiction except just legally distinct enough Neil Gaiman didn't get sued for it.

It's basically shorthand for, "it's kinda fucked up that they left Susan Pevensie out of Narnia towards the end just because she liked lipstick and dudes now."

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 27 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Especially when Peter was more than happy to sell her off for political gain in A Horse and His Boy, until he found out the slavers weren't Christian slavers.

[–] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 18 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

only christian slavers for my sister 😤😤

[–] Slovene@feddit.nl 4 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

And what for my stepsister? ಠ⁠◡⁠ಠ

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 4 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Holy shit, I’m glad I’ve never read this drivel.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 11 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

It's a good series, broadly speaking. You'll find a lot of the story beats repeated in subsequent fantasy novels and isekai manga (Terry Brooks, in particular, loves CA Lewis tropes, Terry Pratchett isn't shy about cribbing from them either, and Brian Jacques's Redwall plays heavily with Lewis's style).

The earlier material is definitely better. Lion, Witch, Wardrobe has been reproduced a zillion times for a reason. Prince Caspian is good. The Silver Chair is good. A Horse and his Boy is good, in large part because it heightens the drama of that last chapter of LW&W so well.

And the books are fairly short. Perfect for younger readers. We pick at the bad parts because they spoil what is largely recognized as a genre setting masterpiece. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's a lot of good material and some incredible worldbuilding in these stories.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

If I’m going to read juvenile high fantasy from a controversial figure of the fifties, I think I’ll stick to Monteiro Lobato. But thanks for providing nuance and perspective.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's the 2020s, every figure older than 3 months ago is controversial.

[–] Pulptastic@midwest.social 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Hard disagree, it is not a good series. I just finished reading it to my kid. We saw it through in large part through discussing what was weird and why as we went.

The only redeeming factor of the series is Reepicheep.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

I feel bad for your kids.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah he went a little mask off in that one specifically, but most kids will miss it I think.

Unless they ask why Aslan mauled the girl who was escaping a forced marriage.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 4 points 4 weeks ago

I don’t even want to know…

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago

A Horse and His Boy was terrible. Gave up halfway through and put off the series for years. Just desert desert desert lazy Muslim analogue desert desert.

[–] Montagge@lemmy.zip 19 points 4 weeks ago

Gotcha! It's been a long time since I've read the Narnia books so I wasn't sure if the "lipstick and boys" was from the books or this short story.

[–] phx@lemmy.ca 14 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

IIRC, it wasn't that "she liked lipstick and dudes" but essentially that her thoughts of Narnia became "oh, that funny game we played as kids".

It's not her gender or orientation, it's that she lost her belief in an effort to become more "adult". The lipstick and boys bit is more to emphasize this.

Narnia is apparently like Neverland in this regard. You stop believing and the magic is gone.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

The faith of children is also a recurring theme in the Bible.

Matthew 18: 2-4, for instance

^2 He called a child, whom he put among them, ^3 and said, ‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. ^4 Whoever becomes humble like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

1 Corinthians: 13 (one of the most-quoted chapters in the Bible, and a beautiful description of love even if you don't have faith) also compares the difference between childishness and adulthood to the difference between the partial understanding of the universe we have now to true understanding.

13 If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast,[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.

And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

In order to see the magic of Narnia, childishness is required, because to see it as an adult is to see beyond the fantastical. In understanding, the ability to see the magic is lost.

[–] Jayjader@jlai.lu 2 points 3 weeks ago

Wow, I didn't realize that C.S. Lewis was riffing off of 1 Corinthians: 13 when he wrote (emphasis mine)

When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.