Objection

joined 6 months ago
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 minutes ago* (last edited 7 minutes ago)

It's kinda unavoidable that if one major power loses influence, another will benefit from the vacuum. You can't really oppose your own country's imperialism without making the case that other countries taking advantage is an acceptable risk.

This is more or less the story of WWI. With the increasing tensions and military buildup, socialists of countries across Europe formed the Second International and agreed in the Basel Declaration, which said that they would use the crisis to rise up simultaneously against every imperialist power and put an end to both the war and to capitalism:

If a war threatens to break out, it is the duty of the working classes and their parliamentary representatives in the countries involved supported by the coordinating activity of the International Socialist Bureau to exert every effort in order to prevent the outbreak of war by the means they consider most effective, which naturally vary according to the sharpening of the class struggle and the sharpening of the general political situation.

In case war should break out anyway it is their duty to intervene in favor of its speedy termination and with all their powers to utilize the economic and political crisis created by the war to arouse the people and thereby to hasten the downfall of capitalist class rule.

But once the war actually broke out, most of them found reasons to rally around their country's flag. German socialists pointed to the conditions of serfdom under the Tsar and pointed to the massive colonial empires of Britain and France, while British and French socialists argued that Germany undemocratic under the Kaiser and had more responsibility for starting the war. They mostly agreed that both sides were bad, but they said they were only fighting to safeguard their countries "against defeat" rather than for victory, but regardless, for all intents and purposes it was the same thing. Of course, in all of these countries, there was considerable political pressure and propaganda pushing them to fall in line and to regard the enemy as worse, and many people did what was personally advantageous regardless of what they had said previously.

There was only one exception, where the socialists took advantage of the war to overthrow their government, without regard for the possibility that it could help the other side, and they did end up ceding a fair bit of land too, but they were able to put a stop that that theater of the meat grinder everyone was being fed into.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Here's the thing. I'm trans. On our own, we represent a tiny sliver of the voting public, not worth considering from a strategic standpoint. But there are plenty of other groups of people in the same boat. Together, we are worth considering - but only together. "What force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?" If we try to build a coalition in which we abandon any group that the democratic politicians deem too much of a liability to be worth protecting, that is no coalition at all, and I well understand that after Palestinians, I will be next. The very same logic that these people were willing to deploy against them can and will be deployed to justify abandoning me and mine.

What advantage do I gain from joining together in a "coalition" in "solidarity" with these fair-weather friends who will drop us at the first sign of trouble? Honestly, they are more of a liability than an asset, because if I'm buddying up with them, it damages my credibility among potentially more reliable people who have good reason not to trust them. I would rather do it the right way and build trust even if it means building from the ground up.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but these disagreements are meaningful and important. This election may be over, but the question remains of what the appropriate strategy is going forward, whether to build a coalition that will treat an offense against one as an offense against all, and ensure that anyone who comes for any part of it is unelectable, or whether to "vote blue no matter who" as we are picked off one-by-one, in exchange for temporary, short term security for some.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I voted for PSL, personally.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 8 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

The funniest thing about is like, I live in fucking Illinois. And I voted for the Dems downballot where it actually matters. All the words spilled, all the hate and anger that's been directed at me, has been over a single third party vote in one of the safest states in the country. The vast majority of Americans live in safe states too.

In reality it's just about enforcing the social norms of the tribe.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?

The vast majority of people would choose worse, at least in some situations.

Philosopher Bernard Williams proposed this thought experiment: suppose someone has rounded up a group of 20 innocent people, and says that he will kill all of them, unless you agree to kill one, in which case he'll let the rest go. Act Utilitarianism would suggest that it is not only morally permissible, but morally obligatory to comply, which Williams saw as absurd. As an addendum, suppose the person then orders you to round up another 20 people so he can repeat the experiment with someone else, and if you don't, he'll have his men kill 40 instead. Congratulations, your "lesser-evilist" ideology now has you working for a psychopath and recruiting more people to work for him too.

Even the trolley problem, which liberals love to trot out to justify their positions, is not nearly as clear cut as they try to pretend it is. A follow up to the trolley problem is, is it ethical to kill an innocent person in order to harvest their organs in order to give five people lifesaving transplants? The overwhelming majority of people say no.

Act Utilitarianism is something that seems intuitive at first glance, but is very difficult to actually defend under scrutiny, and there are many, many alternative moral frameworks that reject its assumptions and conclusions. Liberals don't seem to realize that this framework they treat as absolute and objective - that you would have to be a "lunatic" to reject - is actually a specific ideology, and one that's not particularly popular or robust.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Oh, don't worry, the conspiracy theory is capable of making sense of any incongruities like that, just like OP can explain away the fact that we didn't actually disappear as predicted. You see, this is where the Russian bots practice their techniques and try out different lines before deploying them on a larger scale.

It's not based on evidence or reason so the believers will never be convinced based on evidence or reason, same as any other conspiracy theory.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

I don’t care about solidarity anymore

Never did. Solidarity means you aren't willing to sacrifice marginalized groups to get ahead or save your own skin. If you accept sacrificing Palestinians, you'd accept sacrificing any other group by the exact same "lesser-evilist" logic. What value does that kind of "solidarity" have?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yes. This but unironically.

Tell me, throughout history, how often have atrocities, mass slaughter, and genocide been claimed at the time to be justified on the basis of self-preservation? Say, "securing a future for our white children," for example. Out of those, how many times have the people saying, "better them than us" actually been on the right side of history?

It blows my mind how genuinely prone to evil Americans are, as a culture. There are people who have actually experienced the horrors of war, watched their houses burned down, watched their loved ones die, who still refuse to turn to something as evil as genocide as a solution. But liberals sitting comfortably on their couches worried that they might have to deal with a shitty politician for the next four years will immediately jump on board with being Hitlerites if it means they can go back to brunch instead of doomscrolling. Like, y'all don't even consider Trump bad enough to actually start opposing the US government and treating it as an enemy. I can only imagine what horrors and atrocities you'd resort to if you were ever actually faced with bombs dropping outside your homes.

I'll go to my grave before I vote for genocide, and nothing anyone says or does will ever make me budge, and you'd best remember that because if you wanna blame me for Kamala losing, know that I'll fucking do it again.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I’m also a realist, and know that biden bragging about hindering bibi wouldn’t have helped anything.

Yeah? How about not unconditionally sending Bibi a bunch of weapons and money that he used to commit genocide, you think that might have helped anything?

both sides want to fight for their invisible friends more

Ah, of course, the height of liberal analysis of the situation. I'm sure Israel being a settler-colonizer apartheid ethnostate making shit tons of money through exploitation and keeping the Palestinians in a permanent state of helplessness, poverty, and oppression has nothing whatsoever with why the Palestinians are fighting them, no, it's all because those backwards savages aren't as smart and rational as you are.

This is what happens when you perform absolutely zero material analysis of anything. You're completely oblivious and ignorant of both what's happening and why.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Nothing clownish about me acknowledging the objective reality of an active genocide which you deny being conducted by the "people" you support.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

60% of the buildings in Gaza have already been destroyed, with Biden's unconditional support. Stop doing genocide denial and pretending that your preferred psychopaths aren't bathing themselves in the blood of Palestinian children every night.

 

This one included.

-10
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Objection@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml
 

Before I begin, I have a confession: until recently (until today, in fact), I was a tankie. But this morning I just woke up and realized everything I believed and everything I'd been saying was wrong, and my critics were right about everything. And so, I have decided to completely and totally adopt their way of thinking.

The above image is an example to illustrate how my thinking has changed. You may be familiar with "Russell's Teapot," a thought experiment from Bertrand Russell where he imagines that someone says that there is a tiny, invisible teapot, floating out in space. He argues that while such a claim cannot strictly be disproved, it can be dismissed without evidence because there is no evidence to support it. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. He goes on to explain that while he could not disprove the existence of God, he still considered himself an atheist, because he did not see sufficient evidence for the claim of God's existence to be credible.

In my previous (tankie) way of thinking, I would have agreed with this idea, that claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. But I now understand that this made me a Bad Person. Suppose that, as in the beautiful diagram I drew in MS Paint, the claim is not only that the teapot exists, but that inside of the teapot, there are a bunch of tiny invisible people who are geopolitical enemies of the United States and they are committing genocide against innocent people. Again, before, I would have said that that only makes the claim more implausible and would require extraordinary proof. Now, I realize how wrong I was, and I can only say that I deeply regret and apologize for my statements. The existence of the teapot can be proven incontrovertibly, by the following logic:

  1. If you claim that the teapot does not exist, you are denying that the genocide inside it is happening.

  2. If you deny the genocide is happening, you are a genocide denier and therefore a fascist.

  3. Fascism is wrong.

  4. Therefore, it is impossible to correctly deny the teapot's existence.

As a brief aside, I should mention that in addition to my political conversion, I have also experienced a drastic change in my religious beliefs, as it is now trivially easy to prove that God exists. According to the Torah, God flooded the world, wiping out virtually all of humanity, including countless ethnic groups. To deny the existence of God makes you a genocide denier and a fascist. However, it should be added that to worship God is genocide apologia, which is also fascist. The only non-fascist belief, which is necessarily correct, is that God exists and is evil. Moving on.

Before, I believed that it was ridiculous for the US to spend as much on the military as the next 9 countries combined. I wanted to slash the military budget to fund domestic spending, schools, hospitals, making sure bridges don't collapse, helping the poor, etc. I see now how wrong I was. The Genocide Teapot exists, somewhere out there in space, in fact, there could be countless numbers of them out there. Therefore, the real progressive thing to do is to further cut domestic spending and have everyone tighten our belts so that we can produce as many missiles as possible, to be fired out into space indiscriminately, in hopes of hitting a Genocide Teapot.

However, we must also consider the possibility that these teapots could be located here on Earth too. Teapots are a form of china, which is a very suspicious connection. Clearly, the US must be permitted to inspect every square inch of China in search of these invisible teapots, and refusal to comply should be considered an admission of guilt. But we should not, of course, limit ourselves to China. Perhaps there are Genocide Teapots in Russia, or Brazil, or Germany, or Canada, who knows? I do, because to deny that Genocide Teapots exist in all of those places is genocide denial, which is fascist and wrong.

In conclusion, we should bomb every country in the world simultaneously, including ourselves, and anyone who disagrees with me is a war-loving fascist.

Thank you.

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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by Objection@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml
 

President Trump kept America out of new wars and brought thousands of brave troops home from Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, and many other countries. Joe Biden has undermined our military readiness and surrendered our strength to the Taliban.

When Trump pulls troops out of Afghanistan, it's "bringing thousands of brave troops home," but when Biden does the same, it's, "surrendering our strength to the Taliban." He brags about "keeping America out of foreign wars" while at the same time bragging about assassinating "the world's number one terrorist," Iranian general Qasem Soleimani, which was an extreme act of provocation.

This is taken from the issues page of Trump's campaign website, and there are several more statements relating to foreign policy, frequently and boldly contradicting each other. It's a perfect example of the "If By Whiskey" tactic. So what's actually going on here? Well, to understand the reasons for this equivocation, we need to analyze the foreign policy positions of Americans.

Broadly speaking, people fall into one of four camps: Idealist Hawk (liberals), Idealist Dove (libertarians), Realist Hawk (nationalists), and Realist Dove (socialists).

Idealist Hawks believe that US foreign policy is driven by benevolence and spreading freedom, and the fact that it repeatedly fails to do so (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc) is explainable by a variety of excuses. Generally, they are more interested in current events and easily persuaded to support intervention based on seeing a bad thing happening, without a broader analysis or explanation of the situation or how things have played out historically.

Idealist Doves also believe that US foreign policy is driven by benevolence, but they see that as a bad thing. They are generally right libertarians or hold libertarian values, they see war as another example of wasteful government spending as it tries and fails to improve people's lives, which they generally don't see as a valid goal in the first place. Being idealists, they are still rather easily duped into supporting war and militarism, often, they will support a "night watchman state," with police and the military being the only legitimate functions.

Realist Hawks are nationalists who believe that states pursue their own material interests and are right to do so. They are incapable of distinguishing between the state's interest and their own. Some few are rich enough to actually receive benefits from US foreign policy, but most just root for America in the same way that they might root for a football team.

Realist Doves, which I am a part of, do not believe that US foreign policy is not grounded in benevolence and does not benefit the people it claims to be helping, but also (generally) that it doesn't benefit the majority of people at home. We see it as being driven by and for class interests, and are opposed to the class it benefits.

Trump's foreign policy equivocation, and his "America First" slogan allows him to appeal to both the Idealist Doves (libertarians) and the Realist Hawks (nationalists). He can't consistently take any line on any specific thing. If by Afghanistan, you mean a disastrous nation-building exercise, wasteful government spending, and endangering our troops for the sake of helping foreigners, then of course Trump opposes it. But if by Afghanistan, you mean exerting American strength, intimidating Russia and China, and weakening terrorists to keep America safe, then of course Trump supports it.

In reality, to the extent that Trump has coherent beliefs at all, he is a Realist Hawk, a nationalist, and his record reflects that. But part of the reason he was able to get anywhere was because he was able to triangulate and equivocate well enough to dupe anti-war libertarians.

Unfortunately, in American politics, the conflict is generally between Idealist Hawks and everyone else. This is part of what allows the nationalists and libertarians to put aside their differences (the other part being that libertarians are easily duped). Realist Doves are not represented anywhere, the Idealist Interventionists consider us Russian bots along with everyone else who disagrees with them on foreign policy (regardless of how or why), the Idealist Doves are extremely unreliable, and the Realist Hawks may see the world in a similar way but have diametrically opposed priorities.

tl;dr: Trump's halfhearted antiwar posturing is an obvious ruse that only an idiot would fall for, but painting everyone skeptical of US foreign policy with the same brush helps him to sell it and to paint over ideological rifts that could otherwise be potentially exploited.

 

What is Soulism? Soulism, also known as anarcho-antirealism, is a school of anarchist thought which views reality and natural laws as unjust hierarchies.

Some people might laugh at the idea and say it's not a serious ideology, but this is no laughing matter. If these people are successful, then consensus reality would be destroyed and we would return to what the world was like before the Enlightenment. What did that world look like? Well, you had:

  • Ultra-powerful wizards hoarding knowledge in high towers, reshaping reality to their whims, with no regard for the common people

  • Bloodthirsty, aristocratic vampires operating openly, and on a much larger scale than they do today

  • Viscous, rage-driven werewolves terrorizing the populace, massacring entire villages with reckless abandon

  • Fey beings abducting children and replacing them with their own

  • Demons and angels waging massive wars against each other with humans caught in the crossfire

Fortunately, out of this age of chaos and insecurity emerged a group of scientists dedicated to protecting and advancing humanity by establishing a consensus reality and putting a stop to these out-of-control reality deviants.

Before, if you got sick or injured, you'd have to travel across the land through dangerous enchanted forests seeking a skilled faith healer or magical healing potion. But with consensus reality, easily accessible and consistent medical practices were instilled with the same magical healing properties. Once, if you wanted to transmute grain into bread, you had to convince a wizard to come out of their tower and do it, and they were just as likely to turn you into a newt for disturbing their studies. But thanks to consensus reality, anyone could build their own magical tower (a "mill") and harness the mana present in elemental air to animate their own "millstones" to do it! These things were only made possible by consensus reality.

Now, I'm not saying that this approach doesn't have it's drawbacks and failures, and I'm not going to say that the reality defenders have never done anything wrong. But these "Soulists" want to destroy everything that's been accomplished and bring us back to the times when these supernatural reality deviants were more powerful than reason or humanity, and constantly preyed upon us.

So do not fall for their propaganda, and if you see something, says something. Anyone altering reality through belief and willpower, or any other reality deviants such as vampires or werewolves, should be reported immediately to the Technocratic Union for your safety, the safety of those around you, and, indeed, the safety of reality itself.

Thank you for your cooperation.

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