this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
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Mail/Cleanup/Maintenance Call (sub.wetshaving.social)
submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social to c/wetshaving@sub.wetshaving.social
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I cleaned, polished, and honed these three vintage razors a while ago, but didn't get to posting a mail call. The main act here is definitely the big Henckels 14:

It is in great condition, just a bit of surface corrosion at the toe where the hollow grind touches the scales. I'm always amazed by how quickly these extra hollow 14 razors hone up. It really barely takes any work to get a great edge. This is my third 14 razor, the other two being a Filarmónica 14 and a Henckels Friodur 14 (the stainless successor of this new acquisition). Two shaves with this were wonderful.

The little Puma 88 is a fairly standard ⅝" round tip German hollow ground, but it seems extremely well-made. The absolutely even stamp on the shank, the completely regular jimps, and the pretty scales with brass inlay and the stamp around the pivot pin all scream quality without opulence. I get the hard-to-describe feeling from this razor that I also get from a well made hammer or screw driver. Great shaver.

Finally, this poor Frio 72½ took some serious abuse from its previous owner. If you look closely, you can see that the bevel looks wavy around the middle of the blade.

Here's a close-up.

The reason is that the edge has been bent out of true in three places. When I bought the razor, the images for the offer were taken in a way that didn't show this issue. I almost tossed the razor after it arrived, but then I decided to give it a try and it turns out it has no impact on shave quality. I'm still not sure whether to keep this razor of PIF it maybe.

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[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Very nice haul! I would suggest testing the wavy portion of the edge on the 72½. If it push-cuts the same as the rest of the edge, no big deal. Otherwise, there’s some edge-grinding to be done. As available as these are, I’m not certain it would be worth the effort.

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 4 points 6 months ago

Thanks!

The wavy portion of the edge is a purely cosmetic issue now. It took a while on my 3k stone, but I removed enough material to have a nice even bevel outside of the wavy bevel part, and still hit the apex in the wavy part.

The shininess really emphasises geometric flaws, so it looks worse than it is.

As available as these are, I’m not certain it would be worth the effort.

I totally agree, and that's why I almost tossed the thing :)

[–] whosgotthepudding@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Solid haul and great job on the cleanup! That Henckels really is the star of that show. I'm sure that's going to make for a nice shaver.

Bummer about the 72½. That's great to hear it still shaves well, though. Vintage hunting can be such a crap shoot. Some issues are so hard to spot from pictures, and some people are really sneaky about concealing them.

What's your honing progression looking like?

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Thanks! Yes, the 14 is a great shaver, unsurprisingly.

I have a very simple honing setup, nowhere near the variety of stones and strops you and @gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social have:

A Naniwa combination stone with a 3k side and a 10 k side, a Naniwa lapping plate to keep both sides flat, a canvas strop loaded with chromium oxide, a soft leather strop, and a thick, firm, shiny latigo leather strop.

I set bevels with the 3k, with mostly trailing strokes, and frequently stop to strop (even palm strop, following your suggestion a few weeks back 😉) and test the edge on a styrofoam packing peanut. Once I'm happy with the edge, I switch to the 10K side and here I do exclusively trailing edge strokes. I also frequently interrupt to strop and test the edge.

When I'm happy with the edge on the packing peanut, I dry the razor and give it a good stropping on the canvas loaded with chromium oxide. I repeat this process until I'm satisfied that I can push cut the packing peanut with almost no effort. At this point I give it also good stropping on the soft leather strop and test again. I have a feeling that the soft leather is better at deburring freshly honed edges than the firm latigo and it's breaking fragile bits of the edge. If the edge is still good after this, it's usually good for dozens of shaves before I get the itch to home again.

Someday, I'll want to try some of those natural stones that you and gcgallant rave about. I have tried edges on jnat stones from gcgallant, but I can't confidently pretend to feel the difference between synthetic edges and natural stone edges yet, and I'd like to experiment with them more.

Another thing is that I really enjoy stainless steel razors and from what I understand natural stones are a little bit on the soft side for honing stainless steel, and that instead of abrading the chromium carbide precipitates in the steel they rip them out, leading to scratchy and fragile edges. Have you tried honing stainless steel on natural stones?

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

here I do exclusively trailing edge strokes.

For bulk material removal, the direction of motion does not matter, as I'm sure you know. However, when you get to edge refinement it does. The direction of abrasion draws out the apex as the bevel angle narrows. As Science of Sharp shows, the apex can have a foil burr, but this is easily overcome with stropping, and stropping also creates a micro-convex shape at the apex that I've found to enhance shave comfort.

I have a feeling that the soft leather is better at deburring freshly honed edges

If you load this strop (or another if you want this one to stay pristine) with a thin layer of 1 micron diamond paste your deburring problems will be solved. Years ago I was told that the high quality diamond pastes "tend" to have more consistency in particle size than the green chromium oxide waxy pastes.

(@whosgotthepudding)

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

For bulk material removal, the direction of motion does not matter, as I’m sure you know

That's probably right, but when I get to choose whether I load a thin shell in in-plane compression or traction, I'll prefer traction to avoid buckling, just in case. Probably just superstition at this point.

load this strop [...] with a thin layer of 1 micron diamond paste your deburring problems will be solved.

I'm not sure I have a deburring problem 😅

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago

I’m not sure I have a deburring problem

Fair enough. I may have misread your comment.

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Probably just superstition at this point

Note that there is significant empirical evidence resulting from honing extra-hollow ground razors with in-plane compression. That said, I make my passes rather slowly and at light pressure to minimize buckling that may, or may not, occur 🤨

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago

significant empirical evidence resulting from honing extra-hollow ground razors with in-plane compression

Absolutely.

[–] whosgotthepudding@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

That sounds like a solid progression!

from what I understand natural stones are a little bit on the soft side for honing stainless steel

You can definitely get some super hard jnats that work wonders with stainless. My Nakayama is 5++ and it married super well with Infernals 17.

I hope you try some naturals at some point. They're fascinating, doubly so jnats imo.

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ah, yes, I forgot that you honed Internal's 17.

Yeah, I'll inevitably end up trying natural stones at some point in the not too distant future.

Do you still regularly use you microscope while honing, or do you go by feel, mostly?

[–] whosgotthepudding@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago

I look forward to when you take the plunge.

I go by feel mostly, but always have my microscope for that extra verification of consistency. I'm probably a lot more anal about it than I need to be.

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

My Nakayama is 5++ and it married super well with Infernals 17.

Would you recommend something like this?

I'm still scared off by those prices

[–] whosgotthepudding@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 6 months ago

Yeah that price tag is a little of a 😬

But that stone is probably top tier. Not only really rare, it's kinda collectable I suppose too, as it has both Maruichi and Maruka stamps. Probably stamped during the transition of ownership from Kato (Maruichi) to Hatanaka (Maruka). Either way, either of those stamps guarantee quality.

You might be able to find something more reasonably priced, however. Ozuku, for example, are typically pretty damn hard. I don't think I've ever met a soft one (though admittedly I haven't met a lot 🤣). Other mines like Shobu and Aiiwatani are also pretty solid. You could find a really good stone for only a couple hundred to begin with.

One of the bigger price hikes on stones is mostly looks, believe it or not, over fineness. With exceptions, of course, like in the case of the rare and venerable Nakayama.