Fuck Putin, any little bit helps
this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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Other than cost, I haven’t understood the hesitancy to give Ukraine all the weapons they ask for, immediately.
When war breaks out, it means diplomacy has failed. It only makes sense to no longer consider diplomacy a major factor when making wartime decisions - especially when providing support to a country that’s defending itself from an unprovoked invasion, which is a violation of international law. Half measures only prolong the war, which ultimately makes it more expensive for supporting countries. For Ukraine, civilians and soldiers are dying every day.
This war should have ended by now. I’m glad that most of the world is condemning Putin, but we’re not doing enough.
I'm not an expert or anything, but as it has been explained to me, the geo-political consequences of Ukraine having NATO weapons is enormous.. If Ukraine were to have access to F-18s, F-35s, or any NATO asset, it would implicate NATO, and further escalate the conflict towards a NATO-Russian war (World War 3), and the precipitation of nuclear assets. This is why even France's own Dassault assets and Sweden's Saabs were not offered. F-16s are old enough, and used enough by non-NATO forces that this might be okay.
A prolonged war, while incredibly tragic, might still be less costly than World War 3...
Grrr. Damn geopolitics. I appreciate the response, though!
I'm not an expert
Clearly.
Ukraine were to have access to F-18s, F-35s, or any NATO asset, it would implicate NATO
Bullshit. Everything you just listed is in use by non-NATO countries. The primary drivers for "unlocking" new varieties of aid to Ukraine appear to be:
- battlefield utility in the near future (javelin, himars/m270, western IFVs, tanks etc).
- sending a message to that western support is locked in for the long term (repair facilities, announcements around reconstruction aid)
the geo-political consequences of Ukraine having NATO weapons is enormous.. ... [It would] ... further escalate the conflict towards a NATO-Russian war (World War 3), and the precipitation of nuclear assets.
Russia has claimed that every single new weapons system delivered is "escalatory" and threatens nuclear war every single time. Please stop spreading their propaganda for them.
This is why even France's own Dassault assets and Sweden's Saabs were not offered.
Are you sure that it has to do with this and not the fact that there were more F-16s produced than each of the alternatives combined?
Lmao what's with the salty tone lol
I’m having reddit flashbacks
You can always stick to beehaw if you want nothing but butterflies and puppies.
I'm going to counter Russian misinformation wherever I see it, and these are the same old tired claims, just dressed up with a little hat and bow tie this time.
Oh, please. Don’t try and pretend your behavior is justified because you’re spreading Truth.
You could have made your point without being obnoxious and condescending, but chose to throw civility out the window. I don’t want “nothing but butterflies and puppies”. I want mature people who are able to communicate like adults.
It takes years to train pilots, maintenance staff, logistics to bring a fighter jet to be ready into active operation in a hostile environment under normal conditions.
True, but I’m not just talking about jets. I’m talking about ALL weapons, like rockets and such. There’s been resistance over a lot of things.
It's justifying the cost more than the cost itself. It is hard to justify freely giving to a foreign nation when there are domestic issues that don't have funding.
The state must build the narrative that the money being spent abroad is going to help the people more than if it was spent at domestically. This is not an easy trick to pull off and then even more challenging to maintain.
In my opinion, it’s hard to justify because it’s bullshit. Problems remain unsolved because the will isn’t there, not because we can’t afford it. Anyone who says, for example, that American public schools are underfunded because of our Ukraine policy will (and should) be laughed out of the room.
Thanks for doing your part to build and maintain the narrative comrade
I haven’t understood the hesitancy to give Ukraine all the weapons they ask for, immediately.
It's clear that you're unaware of the extensive corruption in Ukraine. Political corruption, Bribes, Judicial corruption, Corruption in the public sector, Corruption in higher education, Corruption in the social security system, not like Russia is any different, but Ukraine like to pretend they are honest while they pickpocket you.
I’m not unaware, but I got too worked up and simply forgot. It amounts to the same thing, though. Whoops.
You make a good point. Corruption is a good reason to think carefully about any requests. There’s no use in a country donating billions of dollars worth of military hardware unless that hardware actually makes it to the front lines.
How fucking long have they been saying Ukraine will get F-16? The war will end before they get them! It's likely they won't be operational in Ukraine before 2025.
it's very possible the war will go on way past that
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON, Aug 17 (Reuters) - The United States has approved sending F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine from Denmark and the Netherlands to defend against Russian invaders as soon as pilot training is completed, a U.S. official said on Thursday.
"We welcome Washington's decision to pave the way for sending F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine," Dutch Foreign Minister Wopke Hoekstra said on messaging platform X, formerly known as Twitter.
A coalition of 11 countries will start training Ukrainian pilots to fly the F-16 fighter jets later this month in Denmark, the Danish defence ministry said on Friday.
NATO members Denmark and the Netherlands have been leading international efforts to train pilots as well as support staff, maintain aircraft and ultimately enable Ukraine to obtain F-16s for use in its war with Russia.
"I am writing to express the United States' full support for both the transfer of F-16 fighter aircraft to Ukraine and for the training of Ukrainian pilots by qualified F-16 instructors," Blinken said in a letter to the two officials, a copy of which was seen by Reuters.
Kyiv will not be able to operate U.S.-built F-16 fighter jets this coming autumn and winter, Ukraine air force spokesperson Yuriy Ihnat told Ukrainian television late on Wednesday.
The original article contains 573 words, the summary contains 207 words. Saved 64%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!