It’s a niche of the hard drive market. It persists in “surveillance” HDDs but that’s because they’re optimized for endurance, and low noise is just a side effect.
Not too many people are putting a NAS in their living room.
this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024
35 points (87.2% liked)
Selfhosted
39980 readers
775 users here now
A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.
Rules:
-
Be civil: we're here to support and learn from one another. Insults won't be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.
-
No spam posting.
-
Posts have to be centered around self-hosting. There are other communities for discussing hardware or home computing. If it's not obvious why your post topic revolves around selfhosting, please include details to make it clear.
-
Don't duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.
-
Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).
-
No trolling.
Resources:
- selfh.st Newsletter and index of selfhosted software and apps
- awesome-selfhosted software
- awesome-sysadmin resources
- Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting
Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.
Questions? DM the mods!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Thanks, I will look for surveillance types of disks.
Living room is my only option.
Don't do it, is my suggestion. Surveillance disks are optimized for continuous writing performance and not read performance. They mght be SMR version also which can play havoc in a NAS with lots of writes, as it can't just rewrite one portion without relaying out the shingled overlayed tracks adjacent.
Toshiba has some SMR "Surveillance" models but WD and Seagate afaik are all CMR. It's pretty dumb to have SMR surveillance drives, the main goal of a surveillance drive is to be able to write the data very fast no matter what.
Normally they're just regular HDDs with tweaked firmware to make it a bit more lenient towards transient errors so as to not miss out on writing a block due to being overcautious. I've never seen any evidence that they're otherwise optimized for writing over reading. I would have no problem using a surveillance (CMR) drive in a NAS.
The SMR does make sense for surveillance, because it is a constant stream layed down, it is not random write access changing a block in files of various places. This show has talked about their usage. The tolerance on dropping bits to keep going with the stream would worry me in data sensitive applications
There are spec sheets, but I have tested myself, brand new Purple Drive out of package and run disk bench marking read/write testing. Writing was steady, read rate was under performing compared to Blacks or Reds.
Surveillance video is not verbatim sensitive, it's better to get the video on there with bits missing than not at all.
under performing compared to Blacks or Reds.
Isn't it more like those are overperformers?
LOL. I mean depends on the baseline number, so yeah, you would be correct. But the concern would be as you mentioned the Purple drives don't care (as much) about data loss. Fine for video if you lose a pixel, but bad for mission critical data.
If you go for WD red plus 12TB drives, they are helium filled and less noisy even than the 8TB air versions.
I have one and it is silent when not tracking, but all hard drives have some seeking noise. Mostly because it is irregular so human ears pick it up more than white fan or spinning noise.
Best idea for absolute noise reduction in the same room is getting a good closed case, reinforcing with some foam panels with a direct air path that you can direct through a cupboard cutout for example.
What you are looking for is high capacity SSDs in this situation, but that is pricey.
at some point the stock motors will just evolve and the slow ones wont be available anymore. the supply chain will upgrade even if they dont require speed
I suppose the "low-cost consumer grade" market is now covered by SSDs and the HDD market is moving towards enterprise and enthusiasts only. There is not much market remaining for "lower performance" HDD...
Thank you ! I see there are a few models. I must check were I can source them from at a good price in Europe.
Is 5640 RPM acceptable? WD reds are all about 5400rpm and are basically the gold standard for NAS HDDs.
You can shuck them out of WD easy store drives sold at best buy. They're white label drives from WD, but they're all based on the red/red pro drives.
I suppose 5640 RPM wouldn't make much of a difference compared to 5400, although I've never came across such hard disk. I will keep an eye on external drive options, thanks.
Just know that higher RPM doesn't necessarily mean higher noise. In my experience Helium filled drives can be pretty quiet, and basically all really high capacity drives are helium filled.
I have an arm of shucked WD drives and while I can hear them from time to time, they're not bad. Also your case makes a huge difference. Make sure the drives are on rubber isolators, and what they're mounted on can't vibrate to make any noise. The only noise I hear from these drives is when they first spin up after being idled.
According to 2.5admins shucked drives are not as good as the red/pro. They are the drives that didn't meet the requirement for QA; so they go to external plug in drives, that the seller hopes the user doesn't use them to the same rigourous performance of a true server daily requirement
I'm pretty sure that's only a theory and not something that's ever actually been confirmed. That said people on /r/datahoarder have raved about those drives for 5+ years at this point, and so far all 6 of my drives have been going strong after 6 years of constant abuse.
I can only relay what two server drive experts have explained. 2 of the guys in this podcast make their career on drive setup and performance.
Also, remember when Seagate and WD tried to downplay SMR vs CMR disks in their NAS lineup but end users had their servers kicking out the SMRs from the pool? Sometimes in shucking you might get an SMR drive which sucks.
Anecdotal, but mine (a 4TB one) is running fine (knocks on wood) for 5+ years now. It's in my server and doesn't spin down. Low power usage as well. Very happy with it...
I've been using shucked WD Elements/EasyStore/MyBook drives in my 24/7 media server since 2018 without issue. I also have another as a torrent drive which has constant read/writes for around the same time again without issue.
I really don't see the justification for paying nearly 2x the price just to get an actual red label sticker on the drive.
Yeah, I don't diagree on Value, I just would not trust them on mission critical. If you listen to back catalog of 2.5admins they explain in detail about what you could encounter. On the flip side drives are supposed to last 10 years, I have a 13 year old one still chugging away.
Can't you just slow them down? I remember doing that with a home theatre PC. I configured it with hdparm to go to sleep very quickly and not run very fast because the movies I watched didn't need much throughput.
I already have spin-down setup, I can definitely tell when they are spinning up, especially the 7200rpm one. I don't think it is possible to slow-down the rotation speed of the hard disks, I believe they are just designed to operate at a given speed.
Shame. :-/
Are you running these in a NAS or PC case? I have a Fractal Design R6 case and it is nearly silent even with 9 HDDs running inside of it because they added a bunch of soundproofing inside.
Putting hard drives to sleep when not in use can akso drastically decrease power consumption. But for that to work, the OS cannot be on there and things that potentially get accessed rather often neither.
Want to improve my system by doing exactly that and spinning the hard drives only up, if one watches a movie from plex. Nextcloud is on a ssd and should not make any problems anymore :)
If I recall correctly I only had to put /var/log and maybe /var/run into a ram disc. And I think I did automatic updates at night.
I think constantly changing noise is worse than a slightly louder but constant noise.
It wasn't so bad that it would sleep while watching a movie. But it didn't take long to power down after we were done. It was totally noiseless while not in use. And while watching a movie or recording one it was still very quiet.
My old Dell Optiplex would spin the drives up and then shut them off in a constant cycle and it drove me bonkers. I agree a consistent noise is better than no noise some of the time.
If you can't find the drives you want maybe reviewing/testing acoustic Management might be something to help reduce noise.
Modern drives don't have acoustic settings anymore.
oof, I have to upgrade one of my drives then, since those options are showing in the drive config. But yeah, my newer drive has this option greyed out. Only performance vs power saving is and adjustable slider on the new ones. Interesting thing is google says that article was from September 2023, so it is quite out of date then.
My Helium 7200 drives run cooler and quieter than my old 5400's.
I've went through many drives and found WD Reds to be most quiet and perform pretty well. I have it in the same room as 3 other people doing work.
Two alternative options. They won't help with power consumption, but might with noise.
Enclosure
Are you willing to just put an enclosure around the NAS? It's an approach that I was looking at a while back. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be much by way of inexpensive, readily-available acoustic enclosures (at least not large enough for a whole mid-tower PC, which is what I cared about...maybe a NAS might be more-doable). It's not rocket science if you're willing to put time in to make one, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMU4V2S-feM
Like, get drywall (cheap, heavy, good for blocking sound). Cut drywall. Glue/nail drywall pieces into shape of box. Cut hole in drywall for in/out fan. Put fans in holes. Use foam sealant to close off cracks. Line interior of drywall with acoustic foam (good for absorbing sound). Put enclosure over NAS, turn on fans.
You might be able to even put tubing around the inflow and outtake if that isn't sufficient; if a computer-style fan isn't enough, it's possible to get variable-speed flex-duct inline fans in quieted housings capable of creating some air pressure, forcing air down the thing, stuff like this.
Just move it
If you wanted something like a USB enclosure, then you'd have some distance restrictions. But you're talking about a NAS, so it's on Ethernet. Ethernet is pretty easy to run about as far as you're going to reasonably want. Just find some location that isn't near anyone and has access to power and where you can get Ethernet to.
Thank you for the suggestions, but this isn't quite what I am looking for. Moving the NAS to another room isn't an option, bedroom and bathroom are even less suitable for a NAS :D
I don't wish to modify the appearance of it either. For one, I've spent quite a lot of time designing and building the enclosure from scratch (it's a unique and original design from my creation). Then, it sits in my TV cabinet and space is an additional concern.
For one, I've spent quite a lot of time designing and building the enclosure from scratch (it's a unique and original design from my creation).
Ah, gotcha. Depending upon the design and how much space it has, that might actually bring up another possibility. Some of the issue with drive noise comes up as it's mechanically-transmitted to the case. If you haven't already, two ways to reduce transmission of drive noise I've seen used is to either mount the drive on silicone or rubber gaskets or -- and this requires more space on a per-drive basis -- suspend it by elastic bands.
I don't know if that's something that would be trivial or a lot of work to add to your custom NAS, but I've done both and found that it was helpful with drive noise transmission to metal cases.
If I were to rework the drive mounting solution, I would probably redo the whole case from scratch. Currently the drives are slotted inside 5.25" bays and theses are assembled together with 3D printed brackets. I have the impression vibration are not transferring too much to the case and outside.
Maybe I can find some rubber damper that would fit around the drives inside the 5.25" bays.
OP asks about HDD technology, and somehow you found a way to ignore the main ask of their question, AND offer a response including a discussion about a hypothetical home renovation.
"I see you want to know X, but I know about construction, so how about Z or Q? Eh?"
Bravo.
OP, WD Red NAS drives are usually 5400 with low cache and go at least up to 10TB. Might have to buy soon, as I don't see much new stock.
I think Tal’s response is fine. People (including me) often ask about help with a solution they’ve already decided on, without explaining why they eliminated other alternatives that would solve their problem. Sometimes it’s good to back it up. Further, there are more than just OP reading the responses so it might apply to others now and in the future.
Hah! Actually I don't know anything about construction, but have worked in a major rotational drive manufacturer's research labs, albeit not on the mechanical side of things.
You're right that it wasn't what OP asked, but I've spent some time reducing PC noise because I was doing some audio work near one, and spent time trying to reduce PC noise. I've also rigged up automated spin-downs and some of the other topics mentioned here. Wanted to aim him at some resources that I'd hit, as I'd found that generally, trying to use low-noise components was more-constraining and less-effective than either moving or damping the source.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=HMU4V2S-feM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.