this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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Context: I'm missing a cutting board. So I wrote in our telegram family group: "Wo ist eigentlich unser zweites großes Schneidebrett hin?" (literally: "Where is actually our second big cuttingboard thither?").

By using the modal particle "eigentlich" I insinuate that something is oddly off and express an emotional state of curiousity and/or mild discontent.

By adding "hin", I notify that I ask because it is not where it is supposed to be and not because I don't know where it should be.

Now I ask myself, how would I express this additional information in English?

Edit: Thank you all for your answers! I learned a lot. Just our cutting board is still gone, and probably enjoying it's freedom somewhere ... I suppose.

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[–] OhmsLawn@lemmy.world 49 points 9 months ago

English is a highly indirect language when it comes to these sorts of statements. "Have you seen the cutting board?" Would indicate that it's not where it should be. "Where is the cutting board" would be too much of a personal accusation. It's the type of thing you would say to a child that had hidden it. "Where do you keep the cutting board" would be how you ask when you honestly don't know, like if you're helping a friend prepare dinner.

[–] ineffable@sh.itjust.works 38 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

"It looks like the second cutting board has grown legs. Any ideas?"

The first sentence uses a sarcastic metaphor that indicates the correct placement is known but the item is not to be found there

The second sentence expresses an interest in knowing what others can tell the speaker about this situation - maybe not quite discontent, but definitely interest in it being located

[–] Kantapper_Kantapper@feddit.de 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

In Germany, if something has grown legs, it's implied that someone took it without asking or it has been stolen. At least that is how I am using it, or how I grew up using it.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 13 points 9 months ago

It can also mean that in English but generally not specifically, depending on context.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago

Yes we have that in English too. But we also have the use of “stolen” to mean “borrowed without checking first”.

It implies zero or only the tiniest possible wrongdoing on the part or the one who took it. The use of the strong word “stolen” is meant as a sort of disjunction to eliminate any interpretation of mild annoyance.

It’s sarcasm basically, but without the tone. It’s like when I say “Uh I took one of your french fries when you were away from the table” and someone else says “oh you’re going to jail Bud”. It’s a sarcastic escalation of the severity, to signal the opposite: “It’s totally okay”

[–] danl@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The key for all the top answers is that they imply the chopping board has moved of its own volition. This is what adds the subtle emotion to “Where is the chopping board?” without the stronger anger, hostility or suspicion.

You’re communicating that it’s not where it’s expected to be and that you’re concerned about the reason that as well as finding it.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago

Also having grown legs is wrong for a cutting board. It’s literally an abomination, and that implies the cutting board being gone, as a state of affairs, is a wrong. That implies the place I’ve looked and not found it is the right place, which implies I know and have checked its home location.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Something is oddly off and I’m expressing emotional state of curiosity and/or mild discontent: “So …”

It is not where it should be, but I do indeed know where the place it should be is: reference to its place.

Here’s your equivalent question in English:

So … the cutting board’s not in its place. Anybody know where it is?

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Actually this could be shorter:

So … anybody know where the cutting board has gotten to?

This phrase “has gotten to” vaguely refers to a child or animal that is missing; and the missing implies it has a known home location.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ooh ooh! Even shorter:

So … anybody know where the cutting board went?

“went” implies that I know it has moved, ie that I knew where it was, and know it’s not there right now.

Referencing a specific location can either mean “I saw it somewhere once” or it can mean “I know its home location”, and the first use case doesn’t make sense per theory of mind because if you saw it in a random place others wouldn’t know where that place is.

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The cutting board seems to have vanished!

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago

Send it back, Picard!

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 18 points 9 months ago

"Where has the second cutting board gone?"

This indicates that it's not where it's supposed to be, or at least not where you expected it to be and you're looking for it. I can't say for sure as I don't speak German, but in English the "emotional state" you refer to is pretty clear in the context.

[–] Squeezer@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

O cutting board, cutting board, wherefore art thou cutting board?

[–] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

"Because otherwise you'd damage your kitchen counter"

[–] Squeezer@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

“Deny thy counter and refuse thy knife”

[–] pythonoob@programming.dev 2 points 9 months ago

Perfect response

[–] themusicman@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

I think the most direct translation in this context would be "Where on earth is..." (or more extreme) "Where the hell is..."

These inserts add almost exactly the same connotations you describe for "eigentlich", though perhaps also with the implication that you have spent some time looking for it already

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

German Modalpartikeln are rather unique to the language, so really hard to translate. To convey the same "feeling" you'd probably need to rely on other resources, like:

  • synonyms;
  • figures of speech;
  • interjections;
  • a more or less direct grammar;
  • punctuation, emojis, etc.

For example, I feel like your sentence could be translated like "Our second cutting board is curiously missing. Does anyone know where it is?". That "curiously" performing a similar job as "eigentlich", and the indirect phrasing of the second sentence highlighting that you have no clue on where it is. It's still missing the "it is not here" connotation of "hin", but I guess that it's good enough?

[Caveat lector: I'm not fully proficient in English, and certainly not in German. So... yeah.]

[–] Acamon@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"is curiously missing" could also be replaced with other verbs that capture the unexpected / curious nature of its absence such as "has vanished" or "has disappeared".

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Those could work, too. It's a good example of using synonyms to give different connotations - all those words convey that the cutting board is not there, but in different ways.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Vanished/disappeared is of course impossible literally but, colloquially, it definitely suggests something unusual happened without directly sounding accusatory. To me it reads a bit more lighthearted than other options. And I don't think it would be misinterpreted in text form.

Dad would always say, "Who took the cutting board?" And not in a nice way lol.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You seem to be doing alright. How do you think you might improve that proficiency even further?

[–] Donebrach@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Add an expletive. Example “where’s the fucking cutting board?”

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago

Where the fucking fuck is the fucking fuck? Fuck!

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Spoken verbally, intonation can get you there. You can imagine this question asked perfectly calmly and innocently, "Where's the cutting board?" "Oh it's over there on the kitchen table." "Ah." Or you could imagine Batman growl screaming it in the Joker's face. WHERE'S THE CUTTING BOARD?!?! TELL ME!!!

Now, in terms of phrasing, "Does anyone know where the cutting board is?" is probably fairly calm and innocent, "Who hid the cutting board?" is more accusatory/conspiratorial, "where'd the cutting board go?" implies you know where it was/should be, but it is not there, "What happened to the cutting board?" might mean it's gone, or it might mean it's damaged or in some adverse state, "Where the hell is the cutting board?" is probably getting a bit angry, "If I were a cutting board, where would I be?" means you're either in a new kitchen and don't know where the tools are stored, or it has been misplaced and you're still calm about it...there are lots of options.

"Where has it gone?" = avoiding assigning blame. "Where did you put it?" = assigning blame.

[–] revelrous@sopuli.xyz 4 points 9 months ago

'Where has the cutting board wandered off to?' Something passively accusatory. Everyone knows the board didn't move itself, but the speaker is not assigning blame. ...and because everyone knows that there is blame to be assigned, the annoyance is sort of implied?

[–] Ejh3k@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

Add a fuck or two.

Where the fuck is the fucking cutting board?

Where the fuck have you fucking little fucker taken the fucking cutting board?

Y'all motherfuckers better tell me where in the fuck you little fucking thief's have taken the fucking cutting board,

The relative size doesn't matter. The fact that the cutting board isn't in the approximate location is should be does. Adding in a bunch of cuss' will express how seriously concerned you are. Get a little more personal and offensive with the cussing will probably speed up the answers, but also get them to hate you more. So use that sparingly.

But general cussing isn't overall too damaging.

[–] JaymesRS 3 points 9 months ago

Looks like the cutting board didn’t get put away last time it was used, does anyone know where it ended up?

[–] JoBo@feddit.uk 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"Who's nicked the cutting board?" Indicates that it is not in its proper place and makes a (light-hearted) accusation of theft to indicate that it shouldn't be anywhere else.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

If spoken, heavily dependent on tone of course.

[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 2 points 9 months ago

Who bloody hell stole the damn cutting board?

[–] person@lemm.ee 2 points 9 months ago

Garfield's 1978 pipe strip resonates with a new generation once more!

[–] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you asking how to express this information in a utilitarian way, as in, how do you convey the information to be understood? Or are you asking how to express it in a poetic way? The use of thither makes me think you're hoping to express this is a jokingly poetic sense.

[–] Kornblumenratte@feddit.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

In an everyday colloquial way.

The directional particel "hin" is a commonly used word in German without an exact equivalent in English. "thither" is the best approximation I could find, though it's usage is completely different, of course.

[–] Acamon@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

"gone to" is probably a more accurate translation, because "thither" is such an obscure word in English it gives the wrong impression.

[–] Spendrill@lemm.ee 2 points 9 months ago

Who has stolen my second big cutting board?

[–] solrize@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Where can our second big cutting board have gone?

[–] kvasir476@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Maybe "Does anyone know where the second big cutting board is?"

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 12 points 9 months ago

A slight change:

Does anyone know where the second big cutting board went?

The 'went' would reinforce the second point OP wanted, to clarify that they know where the board usually is, but not where it is now

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

wunden? Haha just Scheißing