[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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I wound up in a rental for close to two months last fall. The Electrify America chargers took credit cards but charged more. It looked like you could also get an RFID card that identified you and billed to the account on file at the lower rate. I used another weird DC fast charge that was part of Shell’s network and related to Duke Energy that was app only, very annoying. I used a level 2 from ChargePoint and had to use the app. The cell service didn’t matter; it was deep in an underground garage with no signal. I had to go out to download the app, then came back in to initiate the charging session. It was annoying to do in the moment, but once the account was set up worked pretty easily, and it looks some of those apps work with other networks. I think it would be okay as long as I was signed up on a few networks, but I’d really rather be able to just tap my credit card and go, no signup needed. That was part of the IRA, but it’ll take time to roll out.
Yeah, I'm really hoping as more of the IRA-funded ones come online and build out, we'll see more traditional payment options become the norm. I really don't like the idea of an app for every charging network. That's insane, IMO. Hopefully as EVs take off, there will be pushback from people on all the apps.
Even within the US it varies massively from state to state and even city to city.
I'm in Southern Cal and have access to a ton of DC fast chargers, and the ones near me either accept credit card or app or little keychain RFID/QR token/fob/thing. However, almost none of the level 2 public chargers accept credit cards, either app only or fob thing. When I rented an EV in Florida, the only charger I could find that actually worked at all required an app to work.
In short, a debit card is definitely not guaranteed to be accepted unless you find one that still allows the keyfob/credit card-sized wallet card. You need to drive around to local chargers in your neighborhood to check them out.
In short, a debit card is definitely not guaranteed to be accepted unless you find one that still allows the keyfob/credit card-sized wallet card. You need to drive around to local chargers in your neighborhood to check them out.
Thanks for the insight! That's kind of exactly what I was afraid of. Call me a dinosaur, but I have very few apps, and every one of them is a convenience and not a requirement in my day-to-day life. I do not see my stance on that changing, and do not want to depend on any app for any purpose, especially one as important as refueling my car.
I think I'm going to end up getting a PHEV and kicking the can down the road, so to speak.
Fwiw, consider your exact needs and uses. I have yet to use a public level 2, and only a couple of DC fast chargers. It might be easy enough to locate a DCFC that accepts cards when the need arises, but you will lose the convenience and price of a level 2. But even in that case, the cost savings of a BEV overall probably more than cover it
Yeah, my use case has changed considerably in the last 5 years, and trying to think ahead another 5 is giving me a headache.
I used to drive 120 miles per day, minimum. Then I bought a house closer to work and would only drive 120 miles per month. A year after that, I was offered the option to work full time remote, so now I may drive 120 miles every 3 months. But I don't have any guarantee I won't be forced back into the office on a whim or have to relocate, so trying to imagine my situation 5 years from now is a bit challenging.
That's why, after seeing some answers here and my aversion to relying on apps, I'm leaning toward a PHEV for my next upgrade and giving the charging networks more time to standardize and build out over the next half decade.
With such low mileage, can I ask why you're looking to buy a new vehicle at all? That's low enough that it's actually significantly cheaper to just take Lyft everywhere. I understand wanting to have a car, but at that point it seems like an enormous waste of money to buy new.
Not trying to start a /c/fuckcars thread here, lol, but...
The low mileage I drive now is my current situation, but I can't guarantee it's going to stay that way. I also prefer to not have to wait on taxis, Uber, Lyft, car rentals, etc and "just go" at my convenience. I live in the suburbs, so everything is still out of walking range and would be a trek even on a bike. Plus, sometimes it's nice to just get in and go for a drive (I live in a crappy red state, but we have beautiful scenery haha).
I'm looking to go full EV, eventually, so I can put solar panels on my garage to keep it topped off and cover my usual low-mileage day-to-day driving (supplemented with utility power when needed).
Now I'm leaning toward a PHEV in the short run since my state taxes hybrids and EVs like crazy, and a PHEV would cover my day-to-day driving in EV mode while being in the same "tax" bracket as my current hybrid. A full EV would have a larger yearly fee.
Don't misunderstand, I certainly understand the desire to have a car. What I'm asking is why you are looking to replace the one you have.
BTW, in my shitty red state (Ohio), those fees are applied when you renew your registration. If you renew for 5 years (the max) right before purchase and then transfer that registration, you can avoid 5 years of those extra fees. May or may not help in your situation.
Mostly because I've been wanting to go EV for a while now. This car has been and continues to be amazing, but when the time comes to replace it, I want to have my research done and have something in mind. Public charging experience was one of my outstanding research questions for EV ownership. I said 1-2 years in the post, but it's probably more like 2-3 years out if I'm being realistic (unless something catastrophic/unexpected happens to this car).
That's how WV does it too, but I can only renew for 2 years at a time. I'll keep that in mind and see if something like it is possible. Good tip!
I expect the landscape for EVs to change significantly in the next few years. With the announcement of NACS and numerous manufacturers getting onboard, that breaks down a barrier for many people. There's also a lot of growing pains that I expect to start being resolved.
The big one is charger maintenance- right now, Tesla is the only one taking it seriously. The rest subcontract it out with mediocre (at best) results. With the rapid expansion of DC Fast Charging (every Walmart near me has or is getting a bank of Electricity America chargers, truck stops on several major interstates near me are getting them, etc).
As for your concern about apps being required, I'm not sure. Tesla and its fans are the ones really, really pushing for required apps, plug to charge, etc. they call it "a seamless experience". But with other brands rising, I don't see the same mentality from people that own Bolts or Mustangs. Charging companies and whatnot would absolutely love to Hoover up your data if they can, so who knows...
Another pain point is starting to be unraveled now, too. Fast Charging hasn't really been very fast because the batteries can't handle it. There are a few models, such as the Hyundai Ionic, that have 800v batteries that can fast charge at 350 kW. Combine that with DCFC expansion into truck stops, and it can easily fit into the usual breaks of a standard road trip.
Anyway, all of that rambling aside, I would highly advise keeping an open mind and watching developments in this space. The answer today will probably not be the answer when it comes time to buy.
Oh, absolutely. Those are all pain points I've been noticing in my research, and we just haven't quite overcome them on a large enough scale. Yet. I'm also optimistic those are going to resolve in the next few years.
Hopefully the Bolt/Mustang crowd win the wars. I'm not an "app" person and will probably never be lol. Taking an extra 8 seconds to run my debit card + PIN is not an insurmountable obstacle it seems to be for the Tesla crowd haha. The only integration I want between my phone and my car is Bluetooth audio and handsfree. For everything else, give me tactile, physical buttons and keep the touch screens and tech companies far away.
I've only ever used Superchargers (I have a PHEV, but there's no need to charge that away from home). The Supercharger just talks directly to the car and handles it through your Tesla account/app. Once most cars are using the NACS connector in a year or two, I assume this will be how it works for them too.
App-based billing? No thanks. lol
I guess my point is that you don't really DO anything. You don't have to fire up an app and log in and shit. The charger talks to the car when you plug it in and it just goes. Not sure what your hang-up is with apps (no judgement here, but clearly there is one) but in this case it's pretty seamless and a lot more convenient than some other custom payment apps.
Oh, yeah, I got that. But I'd read (either a long time ago or incorrectly) that it needed to be actively connected to the internet to authorize the payment (e.g. Google Wallet, etc).
Not sure what your hang-up is with apps
Lol. I've been a tech enthusiast all my life, but years ago I had my "turn it around, we've gone too far" moment with regard to apps. 99% of them could and should be websites and ask for every permission under the sun. Nah, just let me swipe my card and enter my PIN. Takes like 5 seconds.
I've only rented an ev, but only about half the time they have successfully taken a cc. Either they were broken, or it was just missing.
A lot of them have apps, which is very annoying as a renter, but if you own the car it should be less of an issue.
Afaik you don't actually need to purchase a subscription to use them.
Thanks! Good to know, even if disappointing. Broken I can understand (people are the worst, after all), but missing seems like like the operator chose not to add them.
Yeah, the apps are a non-starter for me. My dislike for them aside, I'm stuck with T-Mobile as my carrier. If a butterfly flaps its wings between my phone and the tower, I lose all service. lol. Not exactly something I want to rely on if I need to charge up.
You don’t need your phone to be operational for the app to work. It’s just like any of the smartphone app platforms… you have a card on file associated with the account. The car is recognized when you plug in to charge, then automatically charges the account when it is used for the amount of charge you take. You can set it up on your phone, in the car, or on a computer, but only need the car to charge.
Tesla is rolling out a subscription for $13.99 a month for up to 5 charging sessions per day, though. I’ve been traveling a lot and have been charging 3-4 times a day for 50-60$ total. It’ll be nice to save even more money with the sub, but that wouldn’t be worth it if you don’t travel a lot.
I’ve had mine for 4 years and, up until this year when I started traveling, I never used a public charger. Charging at home was always cheap and easy and I never drove more than 250 miles in a day. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how easy route planning automatically plans the most efficient route with stops to charge along the way. I had a bit of range anxiety when I started out, but that was mostly from my ignorance of how it would all work out. Lately I’ve been driving through the mountains in winter and haven’t had any problems.
Okay, that's different and less awful than what I've heard about the app billing. If I can set up the account/payment method on thier website with my laptop and not have to have my phone involved or functional at all to charge, I could be on board with that. Thanks for that bit of info. Some of the stuff I've read may be a bit dated.
Definitely don't think I'd benefit from a subscription like that unless my life situation changes, but interesting to know it's out there if it does.
Thanks!
Yeah. I just found out about the subscription. It would have saved me money on my big cross country trips, but it costs about 10-20$ for a good 2/3s charge when I do need to hit a supercharge. On a thousand mile trip, I probably hit 6 of them, or so, so it makes sense… but I wouldn’t subscribe normally.
If you have a way to install a level 2 charger at your home, it’s a no-brainer. If you rent and have to find a place to charge, it’s a bit more hassle. All I know is I have had mine for 4 years and I’ll never go back.
I have a motorcycle that isn’t ev and feel like it’s such an inconvenience to have to go somewhere to fill it up, rather than having it ready to go when I am.