this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024

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139

Laptop companies: which one? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by wwwgem@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml

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Hello fellows,

I'm currently looking in 13-14" laptops with no immediate needs for one but just because it's exciting. I love my Dell XPS but I feel I should support companies with which I share more common views. I could make the effort to go a with a less attractive look (especially for bezels) but I don't want to go wrong with hardware so what are your thoughts on Framework, Starlab, Purism, and System76? I'll be running Arch and I tend to have a preference for Framework for now.

Do you have feedback (positive and negative) to share on any of these companies?

Thanks for the knowledge you'll bring me. That'll be extremely useful when time comes to go with a new machine.

Update 1: Still wonderful to be part of such a great community. Thanks for all the great feedback (looking for more :) ).
So far everyone is standing behind Framework. Anyone with a less positive experience or who would like to speak for the other companies?

Update 2: Thank you fellows for the time you've spent to share your honest feedback! I didn't want to influence your inputs but you all confirmed the Framework picture I had in mind. It's a piece of mind to read real world experience so thanks again. I was surprised to not see the system76 community speaks louder. Anyway, when time comes I will (virtually) push Framework shop's door.

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[–] JoeyJoeJoeJr@lemmy.ml 30 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

I currently have a System76 laptop, and sincerely regret my purchase. When I purchased it, the Framework was not out yet - I wanted to support a company that supports right-to-repair, and figured since they controlled the hardware, firmware, and software (Pop!_OS), it would be a good, stable experience. It has not been, and support has generally been poor. I know other people have had better experiences than I have, but personally, I won't be buying from them again.

I haven't personally used Purism, but former co-workers spoke really poorly of them. They were trying to buy a big batch for work, and said the build quality was awful. Additionally: https://youtu.be/wKegmu0V75s

[–] cevn@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have one problem with my s76, the usb c port rly sucks. Other than that the laptop runs very well but something so simple shouldnt be an issue imo there are some build quality issues going on..

[–] JoeyJoeJoeJr@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

My usb-c ports can be a little touchy, too. The SD card slot is also really bad - the card has to be positioned perfectly to slide in, or it jams. I'm also upset that the usb-c port can only be used for charging after a full boot. It cannot be used to perform firmware updates, or even to do a ram test. This means day-to-day, usb-c can be used, but I have to keep track of the barrel charger, just in case. This, of course, was not specified on the product details page (nor, I think, that only one of the two usb-c ports could be used for charging - it's possible I overlooked that, but still frustrating on an expensive laptop that lists usb-c charging as a feature).

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[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago

Thanks very much for this important feedback. Framework is definitely taking the lead in responses to this post.

[–] dingus@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That's actually a bit disappointing to hear. I have always been interested in system76 since their existence, but I've never actually purchased anything from them. Was about to impulse buy a desktop PC from them, but ultimately decided against it because it wasn't really what I needed.

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 28 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Framework

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Any more details? ;)

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[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 24 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Since it was not mentioned yet: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

If I would not get so many old computing devices that fulfill my needs (I don’t game on PC/Linux) I guess I’d buy one of those. I live in Switzerland and having a german company for support would be superior to me. And I heard that build quality should be great 😇 😂I guess I’d really like to have one, but as I said, for my needs, my macbookpro5,3 running arch does the job.

[–] superbirra@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

can confirm that tuxedo is great if you are in Europe. It has been my daily driver for 3 years with debian sid and it's great!

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[–] refreeze@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Framework. I've run Debian, Fedora and for a while now NixOS, all of which have worked flawlessly.

I did have to replace the heatsink/fan part on mine because the fan bearing started clicking, but I'm sure that was just a first generation product issue (I was one of the first batches). I was glad to be able to do the replacement myself at relatively low cost and the process couldn't have been easier (took about 30 minutes).

My previous machine was a 2013-ish ThinkPad X series and the Framework absolutely blows it out of the water. I'm looking forward to upgrading mine to a Ryzen motherboard sometime in the not so distant future.

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[–] peanutbutter_gas@lemm.ee 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have a framework laptop and endeavour os with gnome de. I've had no problems with it. I mainly use it for dev work and web browsing. I enabled gnome muli-gesture (basically the same gestures on a Mac trackpad). I've had no problems with that either.

I'd recommend it.

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[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm a fan of refurbished ThinkPads myself, but that is mostly for money reasons. If I had money to blow, I would probably also buy a Framework

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 7 points 9 months ago

Framework also has an outlet, just in case you want to take a look ;)

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I had a System76 10 years ago. The customer service was excellent (several months after receiving my laptop, they sent me a replacement keyboard, because they didn't like the one it shipped with). The build quality was meh, it was a plastic body and didn't hold up well to wear and tear, but it's in my closet and still works. I haven't tried their aluminum bodies.

I now have a Framework. It arrived with trackpad issues, and one of the HDMI adapters didn't work at all. They shipped me replacements for both at no cost to me (except time). It's been nice knowing that any other issues I do have can be replaced piecewise. Also I like that the webcam/mic have physical kill switches.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago

Very nice to read this feedback. I'm very sold to Framework after all the great things posted here. An impeccable customer support like the one you describe means a lot about a company.

[–] nickiam2@aussie.zone 16 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I've had a framework for 2 years now. It's run fedora, manjaro (arch based) and Debian with no major issues. Manjaro had some problems with KDE and the high DPI screen. Sometimes the scaling was inconsistent between apps. Fedora just works.

Only hardware issue is the battery life is just not that great. And the trackpad doesn't always work property, but I think that was a first generation issue that's been resolved since.

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[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

While I'm yet to do it myself, I would suggest getting a Thinkpad T480 and upgrading its RAM. The reason you want a T480 is because it was the last Thinkpad to have user removable parts. One tip: when using eBay, make sure you filter out the T480s. The T480s is not the same as the T480 since it doesn't have user removable parts.

[–] Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Second the T480, it's a great Linux laptop and very upgradable. If possible try to make sure it already has an NVMe or SATA M.2 in the main drive bay. Switching from a 2.5 requires an adapter board and different cables.

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[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Thanks for the tip. I know a lot of people are going for Thinkpads and you're specific recommendation may seem interesting but I'd like to support other companies like the ones I bought from so far (Toshiba, Lenovo, Dell, Vaio, Acer, PB, Razer) and I'd also like to build my own laptop from the start.

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Of course. Just remember this when buying a laptop (and by extension a printer): FUCK HP!

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[–] SheeEttin@programming.dev 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I hate Lenovo and I have a Lenovo laptop. The company is shit but the laptops are great. I justify it by buying used.

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[–] murvillian@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

What parts other than one stick of RAM aren't upgradeable on the t480s? The processor? I've seen screen swaps, touchpad swaps, keyboard, just about everything. I got one back in the summer, added a stick of RAM to get up to 16gb, it's running at 3200mhz like the other one, and swapped in a new OEM battery. It's been great. I also recently bought a e495 for around 60 bucks, it's thicker and plastic-ey, but also a solid Linux machine running an AMD CPU. Are the newer t14s really that crippled in repairability?

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[–] maness300@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I would try to avoid any kind of brand-loyalty.

Find something that meets your specifications and try it out for yourself. If it works, keep it. If it doesn't, return it.

Just about every retailer has guaranteed returns for 30 days on computers.

Check out https://old.reddit.com/r/LaptopDeals/ daily until you find something that meets your needs and budget.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

Thanks. That does not not really address my question but I certainly share your view as to not be married to a brand. My personal history and this post question are actually going that route.

[–] naeap@sopuli.xyz 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Anyone have some experience with StarLabs?

Ordered a StarFighter like more than half a year ago and am losing confidence in the company...

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Can you expand on that?

[–] naeap@sopuli.xyz 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well, the Laptop is still not released. Not sure what I can say more about it :⁠-⁠\

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[–] pr06lefs@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Personally I'm holding out for a laptop based on the snapdragon elite X arm chips coming out later this year. Should be great for battery life (like 28 hours) and very fast. We'll see how the linux support turns out. And also which manufacturers pick it up - would like framework but haven't heard anything about that from them. Lenovo already released a system based on the old snapdragon chip so seems likely they'll release one based on the elite X too.

[–] mryessir@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Got this one. I like it but support is really rough. Not officially supported but they are helping somewhat the motivated guys getting it upstream. Was advertised with 28 hour battery life as well. You can get 12 hours in linux, less in windows.

Peformancewise it is flawless. The weight is awesome. Very comfy on the lap. But its almost two years and very much is missing.

If the new generation doesn't have official linux compatibility I would not recommend buying it on release.

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[–] fleet@lemmy.ca 3 points 9 months ago

I didn't know about this specifically, but I'm holding onto my 2017 ThinkPad until I can buy an Arm laptop and run Linux on it.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

That's interesting... I was not aware of that. Another more element to add to my future decision ^^

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Novacustom or System76, they actually use open Firmware.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Novacustom... Never heard of it. The almost insignificant disadvantage I can see so far for Framework is that they don't use open-source boot. Everyone so far stand behind Framework. How would you sell me on System76 or Novacustom?

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Framework tried Coreboot, has problems and gave up. When buying a Laptop with coreboot you support open Firmware Development for all CPUs, many board generations etc.

Just look at 3mdeb's Dasharo guide. Its nearly as secure as Heads, on a modern Laptop!

[–] sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Not true, firstly 'framework' never tried Coreboot they have provided boards to coreboot devs however, who've had issues including accidentally bricking the board. New boards have been shipped, and the origional fixed. They haven't given up though completely and the work is still being done. There was a recent talk that had to be canceled due to the speaker getting sick on this subject. Work is likely still being done, but is slow, and will continue to be so.

Still though, there's no evidence that framework has ever had or ever will have the intention of including core-boot by default. They're simply supporting coreboot devs to make it compatable

The reasoning for why the others have it is likely due to system76 and nova customs using mostly generic parts like the shell and motherboard along with being around longer. It's great to support a company that's ensuring coreboot works on their system however and pushing towards a non-proprietary future

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[–] Falcon@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Framework and ThinkPad have both been a really positive experience.

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[–] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Framework

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Any more details to share?

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

My favorite drink is water.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Also, I have heard that Linux runs pretty well on them and they are upgradeable.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago

I agree. Have you ever owned one?

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[–] sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

If you're willing to import, tuxedo computers is another great choice. I can personally vouch for framework but I'd caution if you're looking for the 16, it'll be a bit before they're available. 13ish batches pre-ordered, with batch one shipping in a few weeks, it may take quite a bit to get. The 13 though is in stock and shouldn't take too long to recieve

Edit: oh sorry, 13 inch is your preference. I'd strongly vouch for framework. I'd also say stay away from purism due to their scummy history on the phone if you care about that.

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Another happy Framework user here. I have 2 first gens in my immediate family and 2 second gens among my friends. All run Ubuntu LTS. No one is complaining. I've already replaced my bottom chassis because I destroyed it during a bad mishap. Ordering was easy, the part was inexpensive, the replacement was straightforward. A Dell XPS perhaps feels a bit better made, but then it doesn't say Made in Taiwan on the bottom so there's that. 😅

On the other hand System76 is building a new open source desktop environment in a sane programming language... 🤔 If COSMIC desktop turns out great and I end up using it, I'll probably throw a couple of hundred their way in lieu of buy their laptop.

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[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Weirdly, my (five year old) Microsoft Surface runs Ubuntu perfectly. (Edit to clarify, after some initial hassle.)

I'm eying a Framework 16 next.

Edit: To clarify, I would not recommend purchasing a Microsoft Surface to put Linux on it. As others have pointed out, it's not the smoothest setup experience.

If anyone already has a Surface and wants to extend it's life with Linux, that I recommend wholeheartedly. With the disclaimer that there was some weird nerdy deep-dive extra setup needed.

[–] krash@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Certain surface models run linux fine, but I wouldn't recommended it as a linux laptop as it requires solving several issues before you get a working computer.

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[–] art@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

I always recommend older (2-3 years behind) thinkpads and Dell latitudes. Most people don't need latest and greatest, far more bang for you buck, and they're relatively easy to repair.

Plus, it doesn't hurt to keep a perfectly good machine out of a landfill.

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