this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024
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Unpopular Opinion

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There's this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you're a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it's not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the "if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice" is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.

First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let's get that out of the way. This isn't a foot in the door for "trans this really isn't that" narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.

And yes, there's plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don't think it's racist if a woman says she doesn't want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn't more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don't want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.

Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn't. That's not fair to you and you're denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They're going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: "If you loved me for real this wouldn't bother you"... that's not going to convince anyone. They're either going to leave, or they'll resent you forever. That's just how it is. You can be mad at that but that's about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There's just no way to win once you've gone down that road.

"I want a CIS mate" is not the same as "trans women are not women" - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn't be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.

The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people's right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it's not going to end well for you. All you're going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don't want to. And that's not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don't imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.

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[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The one thing that kind of disturbs me about trans relationships when I've called it out, is that trans men and trans women don't feel the need to disclose that they're trans to their partner, as if it's not something important that the other person has a right to know.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against the trans community and I think it's horrible that they're being made into scapegoats and getting attacked by right-wing assholes, but at the same time, people have a right to know some things about their partners. I think trans folks have every right to transition into whatever makes them happy. If people are open for that relationship, more power to them, I am happy for you, BUT that's still a choice that somebody should be allowed to make on their own whether they want to be in that relationship or not with full knowledge of what's going on. To me, it's borderline sexual assault if you've not disclosed that to a partner, since knowing the truth could potentially have changed their actions, though maybe it's more something like "sexual fraud".

The arguments I've gotten against this from some people just don't hold up, things like, "Well you wouldn't disclose every dental procedure you've had to a partner would you?" No, because nobody gives a shit about how many crowns you have when they're trying to have sex with you, that's irrelevant to the situation. Whereas, "this person biologically started as the opposite sex and they've made a transition", is kind of a big deal for some people and could be a deal breaker. Whether you think that judgement is bigoted doesn't matter, that's a boundary that they've set for themselves and should still be respected. Them declining is probably helping you dodge a bullet, since them finding out after the fact is WAAAY more likely to go south pretty quick.

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[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

...I'm pretty sure that no one except extreme I-don't-know-what people are saying you can't have anatomical preferences.

No one is going to say that I'm homophobic because I'm a cisgender heterosexual man that is only interested in dating cisgender heterosexual women. If I was going to be accused of homophobia, it would be for doing things that dehumanize gay people, like denying them basic rights afforded to straight people. (And, for the record, there are a lot of cis-het women that I would never date, even aside from the fact that I'm married.)

On the other hand, what is transphobic is the idea that transwomen are trying to "deceive" you. Maybe you could just, I dunno, try using your words? Talk about shit? Like, I don't date people that are religious, "spiritual", or takes astrology/tarot/etc. seriously; I am not going to have enough respect for someone that believes that nonsense to be in a relationship with them. If someone isn't in-your-face about it, I'm not going to accuse them of trying to deceive and trap me when I find out; I'm just going to leave.

[–] giddy@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago

I am the dad of a transgender person and I agree. Sexual and romantic attraction should never be held to the same standard. The heart (and the genitals) wants what it wants

[–] answersplease77@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I define a partner and see relationships differently. A partner is not someone you just fuck. I'm not even gay but I'd rather be with a guy who wants me than a soulless shallow golddigger girl who pretends and manipulates me thinking she likes me. I'm too old for this crap. my heart matters a lot more than my balls

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[–] CultHero@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

If this happens please let me know. I've never heard of a trans person saying they don't tell their partners they're trans.

Some people may not want to choose to disclose on the first date, depending on the other person's personality. If there's nothing there and no second date no harm no foul. If there's a spark and a wish to take things further I've heard (read) many trans people saying they'll wait until after the date to disclose they're trans by text to be able to avoid a violent confrontation.

The climate is extremely hostile for trans people right now and people have to worry about their safety.

[–] creditCrazy@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Personally I agree. Personally one of the biggest factors that makes me want to get into a relationship in the first place is more or less to make a kid. Sure adoptions are a thing but like I just don't see myself getting turned on by sex with someone who doesn't have a vagina. The most I can see her doing for me is a hand job. Shallow yea but that's just kinda biology. I can't see anyone making me enjoy a trans woman anymore than you can make a gay dude enjoy a cis woman. And all that's not even mentioning I live in a place where parents still pressure their children to make grandkids.

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[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

While I agree it's certainly fine to have preferences there is also etiquette to consider. Transphobia at it's core is a belief that the very nature of being trans is somehow lesser than or repulsive. Transness is a very wide spectrum that has a bunch of different presentations so simply discarding the entirety of the category is transphobic.

It's more helpful to think of things more in terms the individual things that you are looking for and your deal breakers. Like if your major beef is about physicality there are trans people who retain their physicality and fertility of their birth sex. The feild of trans presentation is really wide. Trans people also generally understand dating as a series of hurdles in finding someone who will give them a chance. Having people just shut down the entirety of the category regardless of any potential reasons they might actually fit what you are looking for contributes to a pervasive fear a lot of trans people have about never finding romantic acceptance. "No trans people!" stands out of a request like a flat out condemnation of anyone who might so much as request a different pronoun rather than just as a personal preference.

An example of something inclusive but still firm on preferences would be something like saying - "I have a female genital preference, want to keep the door open to having children of your own one day and prefer people who present in a very feminine way" ... Because you still haven't discluded all trans people. You've just made it clear that you have a genital and presentation preference and you have a life goal that makes perfect sense. She/they AFAB non-binary partners who are generally femme presenting are rare but still exist and you are communicating your needs in a way that doesn't place a value on how someone internally feels about their gender.

Breaking down the root of transphobia is hard. It demands that we remove a value judgement off of being trans. This at some level means an internal assessment of where you might be open to trans partners and keeping the options open. Like if you are not okay at all with any form of transness because you have a core belief that we are just too much work with our pronouns and our weird way of self conceptualizing ourselves, that's transphobia. ...

Trans is an umbrella term for a group of people so internally diverse that virtually every combination of sexual physicality, gender presentation and gender identity is somewhere represented. Writing off every potential person in the category basically is saying that there are zero concessions you will personally make because even the smallest most unnoticeable presence of trans identity in a person regardless of their physicality or personality is completely repellant to you... Which while it IS a preference is still fairly hostile to trans acceptance.

[–] Zess@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry, couldn't make it past "etticate."

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[–] the_q@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being ace/aro must be a fucking god send these days.

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[–] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

I dunno, dating apps are part of the internet and therefore shouldn't be taken too seriously. Until you meet up with someone it's all in your imagination anyway.

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