this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.

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  1. All posts must be showerthoughts
  2. The entire showerthought must be in the title
  3. Avoid politics (NEW RULE as of 5 Nov 2024, trying it out)
  4. Posts must be original/unique
  5. Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct

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[–] BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Public Service Announcement: The Right to Free Speech means the government can't arrest you for what you say. It doesn't mean that anyone else has to listen to your bullshit, or host you while you share it. The 1st Amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences. If you're yelled at, boycotted, have your show canceled, or get banned from an Internet community, your free speech rights aren't being violated. It's just that the people listening think you're an asshole, And they're showing you the door. https://xkcd.com/1357/

Relatedly, the people who are the most upset about censorship when no one listens to them never remember the other right that goes along with free speech: Freedom of Association. That means that you can mutually choose to listen, platform support OR NOT with whomever you wish.

[–] fr0g@infosec.pub 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

People not wanting to engage with other people is not censorship. Nobody is entitled to someone else's attention.

[–] small44@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

I agree but here we are talking about preventing potential people who would like to hear, read or see certain posts

[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

lolno

You can say whatever the fuck you want, but other people aren't obliged to listen to it or pass it on.

Talk to the hand.

[–] Ducks@ducks.dev 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The word "censorship" has lost all meaning

[–] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just like "liberty", "fascism", "freedom", "bigotry", "woke", "liberal", "communist", "nazi", "supremacist", "ethical", "feminism", "gender" and many others.

It's easier to push a political agenda if you empty words of all meaning just to turn them into buzzwords that can mean whatever you want them to be in order to trigger outrage

[–] SaveComengs@lemmy.federa.net -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

english teachers giving you marks whenever you mention feminism:

[–] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry, don't you like it when I mention the things that you don't agree with? Should I just have mentioned "woke" and "communist" to make you feel better?

[–] SaveComengs@lemmy.federa.net 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

that's not what I meant, I was joking about how english teachers seemingly give you free marks when you mention feminism or patriarchy

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

A server operator who chooses to federate or not federate another server is well within their rights to do so. Their server, their rules. If you don't like it just browse the defederated server yourself, no one is stopping you.

It's like visiting someone's house and complaining they don't have organic coffee. If they don't have organic coffee they aren't stopping you from getting organic coffee, they just choose not to have it.

[–] justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

After looking through the comments here, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just don't understand what you're saying, because you seem to be under the impression that "defederating" means that noone that isn't subscribed to the defederating instance will have access to the content anymore. (e.g. Instance A cuts ties with Instance B and C so people with accounts on Instance B and C can no longer read what is published on Instance A)

This is not how it works.

You can browse all instances without even having an account on any of them so absolutely noone loses access to anything. The only thing you temporarily(!) lose is the ability to WRITE anything on the defederated instance, but you can just make an account there anytime you want.

So when Instance A cuts ties with Instance B and C, people with accounts on A can no longer WRITE anything in communities on B and C, but everyone can still READ everything, and if you happen to have an account on Instance B and want to write something on Instance A, you can just create an account there.

Spending ten seconds on creating an account is not censorship.

[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

Yep, and Connect for Lemmy on Android has a really wonderful setting where you can browse other instances without an account and view communities that are local to it. Apps make it easier to handle accounts too now. Liftoff has been the best in that area.

[–] db2@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Boo hoo, people aren't being forced to put up with my stupid shit, waah!"

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes and no. The people still have the voice, you're not preventing them from talking to other people, you're just preventing them from accessing your instance.

Centralized websites like Facebook, Twitter, whatever. That would be censorship if they remove somebody's voice.

Decentralized instances, are closer to private communities. They're focused, and they create curated viewpoints.

If the federated universe gets dominated by one or two powerful instances, then yes it would be censorship, but if people are using it at a decentralized fashion: it's just communities expressing preferences.

[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not really. These aren't monetized sites, but just individuals inviting guests to use their instance over self hosting their own, and there's other instances people can move to.

Each instance is better seen as individual forums than a reddit type centralized site. Some forums allows cross account logins, and some you have to create another account. And defederation doesn't cause that instance to cease to exist like banning a community or subreddit does.

[–] small44@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Money is not the only reason why people/ businesses want to censor stuffs. It can also be because of politics or ideology

[–] cooopsspace@infosec.pub 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Get fucked.

It's our right to live in a safe environment without Nazi fucks.

You have an entitlement to speech, you're not required to be heard or listened to by me.

[–] small44@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

Who the hell talked about nazis.I'm with censoring hate speech and i don't believe in total free speech. Did beehaw defederated with lemmy.world becauae of nazis? Yes you don't have to listen to anybody but you have no right to decide for other what to see. That's why i'm against defederation and with the ability of individual users to block whatever they want

[–] WidowsFavoriteSon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Get over yourself.

I would say that for an action to be considered censorship in the strictest sense, it would need to be the suppression of information as imposed and enforced by a monopolistic authority.

If the State were to declare a book banned, that would be censorship because the State establishes itself as the single totalising authority over the people in the territory it governs. Should you contravene that ruling and possess the material in question, you're opening yourself up to the threat of violence until you start respecting it. You're not able to opt-out, the single authority imposes itself and its ruling on you.

Meanwhile, on federated social media there are many concurrently operating instances with different rulesets and federations. If the instance you're part of decides to defederate with another, then you can move to another instance which continues to federate with the defederated instance in question if you're unhappy with the decision. You're able to opt-out of that ruling without consequence.

Plus, even if you decide not to move instance, the content hosted by the defederated instance will still be available through the instance itself.

Defederation doesn't meaningfully suppress information, whereas censorship does.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've been thinking about this at depth. I think the public square, as we would consider the free speech zone in real life, is the closest analog to the activity pub feed itself.

As long as people have access to the activity pub protocol, they have free speech. The instances choosing to subscribe or not subscribe to that activity feed is not censorship

So if somebody received a court order saying they could no longer use activity pub, that's clearly censorship.

[–] thecam@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

In many cases it is simply censorship.