this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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About two-thirds of Canadians surveyed this month said American democracy cannot survive another four years of Donald Trump in the White House, and about half said the United States is on the way to becoming an authoritarian state, a poll released on Monday said.

The November U.S. election is likely to pit President Joe Biden against Trump, who is the clear frontrunner to win the Republican nomination as voting in the presidential primary race kicks off in Iowa on Monday.

Sixty-four percent of respondents in the Angus Reid Institute poll of 1,510 Canadians said they agreed with the statement: "U.S. democracy cannot survive another four years of Donald Trump." Twenty-eight percent disagreed.

The Jan. 6, 2021 attack on Capitol Hill by Trump supporters seeking to block certification of Biden's 2020 election win shocked many Canadians, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau publicly blamed Trump for inciting the mob.

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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 60 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Canadians are also more clear than Americans that this isn't a Trump problem. He's just the symptom.

Canadians who are old enough remember the Bush II presidency, where Canada decided it wasn't going to join the US on its adventure in Iraq, and Americans freaked out. Americans started boycotting Canadian goods, and saying that if Canada wasn't siding with the US it was siding with the "terrists".

The election of Obama restored some hope that maybe things were getting better, but the reaction to that with the whole Tea Party thing, and then the Trump presidency showed it wasn't a blip, and that almost 50% of Americans were not rational people. Then there are things like the frequent government shutdowns, the constant gun massacres, the overtly political Supreme Court and its recent stance that precedent doesn't matter.

Back when Reagan was in power, the US conservatives were making terrible decisions, but at least they had a coherent philosophy, they believed in democracy, and the conservative ideals were more or less shared by other conservatives around the world (Thatcher, Mulroney, etc.)

These days, the US right wing is an incoherent mess of conspiracy theories, religious extremism, and chaos. Conservatives want to ban or burn books, but they still claim to stand for freedom of expression and speech. They talk about passing laws banning non-heterosexuals from everything, while simultaneously wanting the government to get out of their lives.

And, with a nearly 9000 km shared border and massive social and economic ties between the two, whatever happens in the US will affect Canada. There's no escaping that fact. Canadian democracy is almost irrelevant. If Trump comes to power again, there are no votes that Canadians can cast that will shield them from the chaos.

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[–] Ulvain@sh.itjust.works 56 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Dear United States,

I hope this email finds you well. I couldn't help but notice some unsettling developments in your life recently, and as your upstairs neighbor and friend, I felt the need to reach out.

It's been hard to ignore the noise from your past relationship with that abusive ex-boyfriend. You were so brave to leave him four years ago, especially after that terrifying January 6 incident. But now, I've heard whispers that you might be considering getting back together with him. Is that true?

I remember how hard it was for you, and for all of us who care about you, when he was around. His actions and the chaos he brought into your life were not only harmful to you but also affected those around you, including us upstairs. We thought we had lost the warm, friendly neighbor we knew.

Please think carefully about this decision. We all want what's best for you, and it's painful to see you possibly walking back into a situation that caused so much hurt and turmoil. If you need someone to talk to, I'm always here.

Take care and stay safe.

Sincerely,

Canada

[–] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Dear United States,

I hope this email finds you well. I couldn’t help but notice some unsettling developments in your life recently, and as your upstairs neighbor and friend, I felt the need to reach out.

It’s been hard to ignore the noise from your past relationship with that abusive ex-boyfriend. You were so brave to leave him four years ago, especially after that terrifying January 6 incident. But now, I’ve heard whispers that you might be considering getting back together with him. Is that true?

I remember how hard it was for you, and for all of us who care about you, when he was around. His actions and the chaos he brought into your life were not only harmful to you but also affected those around you, including us upstairs. We thought we had lost the warm, friendly neighbor we knew.

Please think carefully about this decision. We all want what’s best for you, and it’s painful to see you possibly walking back into a situation that caused so much hurt and turmoil. If you need someone to talk to, I’m always here.

Take care and stay safe.

Sincerely,

Canada

Chers États-Unis,

J'espère que cet e-mail vous trouvera bien. Je n’ai pas pu m’empêcher de remarquer récemment des développements troublants dans votre vie, et en tant que voisin et ami du dessus, j’ai ressenti le besoin de vous tendre la main.

Il a été difficile d’ignorer le bruit de votre relation passée avec cet ex-petit-ami violent. Vous avez eu le courage de le quitter il y a quatre ans, surtout après le terrifiant incident du 6 janvier. Mais maintenant, j’ai entendu des rumeurs selon lesquelles vous envisageriez peut-être de vous remettre avec lui. Est-ce vrai?

Je me souviens à quel point c'était dur pour toi, et pour nous tous qui tenons à toi, quand il était là. Ses actions et le chaos qu'il a apporté dans votre vie vous ont non seulement été préjudiciables, mais ont également affecté votre entourage, y compris nous à l'étage. Nous pensions avoir perdu le voisin chaleureux et amical que nous connaissions.

Veuillez réfléchir attentivement à cette décision. Nous voulons tous ce qu’il y a de mieux pour vous, et il est douloureux de vous voir revenir dans une situation qui a causé tant de souffrance et de troubles. Si vous avez besoin de parler à quelqu'un, je suis toujours là.

Prenez soin de vous et restez en sécurité.

Sincèrement,

Canada

[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 42 points 10 months ago

well trump has shown to be a staunch enemy of democracy, the constitution and the rule of law

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

In case you're here for the first time, reading this comment, and you blacked out from 2016-2020, Donald J. Trump is a fascist demagogue, who speaks directly to Russians about internal US affairs including classified info and has said that if re-elected, he will become a dictator. The GOP's plan to dismantle the executive branch and replace staffers with Trump loyalists has been laid out and available for all to read, entitled "Project 2025". His children admitted to meeting with Russian intelligence officials in Trump Tower to discuss undermining the 2016 election. He called Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, was best friends with the world's most famous pedophile, mocked a disabled reporter in front of thousands of people (and on national TV), he lied that he would lower taxes on the working class and instead raised them, he illegally demanded clandestine investigations into the Biden's as blackmail for military aid to Ukraine (hmmmm I wonder what Donald learned from Putin during their hangouts...), and he let millions of Americans die of COVID by repeating lies that contradicted the real science of the pandemic. The laundry list is massive. He's not fit to be president of anything and he belongs in jail.

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[–] teamevil@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 8 points 10 months ago

Some. But not two-thirds, unfortunately.

[–] GladiusB@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

So does the world

[–] nikita@sh.itjust.works 31 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Regardless of the outcome of the US elections, I hope this makes the Canadian government realize that it needs take a more independent stance from the US in terms of its policies. Because right now our politicians don’t even want to change the daylight savings time policy without US states agreeing to it at the same time.

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[–] CultHero@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago

My grandfather drove a tank in WW2, a cousin of my grandmother went down on the HMS Hood. My family survived the blitz.

Now I'm sitting in Canada watching America gleefully become the new nazi fatherland and it's terrifying. Watching your neighbour embrace fascism with open arms... words cannot describe the amount of disappointment I have right now.

[–] TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 26 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The amount of MAGA dipshits we have in alberta is uncomfortably high

[–] Breve@pawb.social 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What happened in the US could very easily happen here too. We're not as immune from the misinformation as we think.

[–] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What happened in the US could very easily happen here too.

Given the current polls, it's about to.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago
[–] Oderus@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Like the Premier of Alberta.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 23 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Please take me as a refugee if/when this happens... I've got an engineering degree and I'm willing to learn French.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 27 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Canadians also worry that CANADIAN democracy cannot survive Trump's return to the White House...

[–] DragonTypeWyvern 12 points 10 months ago

A fascist dictator annexing a relatively weak yet prosperous neighbor with a similar culture and shared history?

When has that ever happened?

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah there’s a good chance Trump will invade Canada eventually.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If you are going to leave the time is now. Not when you are in line behind tens of millions of refugees. As I said many times I plan to go down with the ship, but my wife has citizenship in another country and our kids can now legally be there. If/when it goes to hell send them out and I am staying.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Easier said than done. I earnestly looked into it around 2016 and it's not easy to make it in as a citizen, especially if you don't have a job offer. Having an engineering degree definitely helps, but I don't know how much. I started doing Duolingo French because that also gives you some "points".

It just wasn't doable for me at the time.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Luckily you don't have to speak French in 90% of the country.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You don't have to, no, but if you're trying to immigrate, there is a "points" system where you get points for various things. For example, there is a chart with a list of careers, with more valuable/desired fields equating to more points. You also get extra points for understanding, reading and/or speaking French. Higher score means more likely to be accepted.

So if one wanted to maximize their odds, learning French would help.

[–] irotsoma@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

It's not doing very well without him, definitely won't survive with him. Tired of voting for slower erosion of democracy rather than having the option to vote for expansion of democracy. The US is not long for this world as a democracy. We'll soon have Putin style "Democracy".

[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

Right here with them. It's kind of scary how close we had come before, but it's even scarier to think that there's a good portion of Americans who are like, "Yes, we've had first Trump term, what about infinite Trump terms?"

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Yeah so do like half of Americans myself included.

[–] Powerpoint@lemmy.ca 11 points 10 months ago

I'm guessing the 36% that didn't see a problem with Trump were Conservatives who had to much lead paint in their diet as children.

[–] Tugboater203@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

They aren't alone

[–] rabiddolphin@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Due to global hegemony if US democracy falls so does world democracy

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 10 months ago

I doubt everything would tumble like a house of cards, but it would have a severe destabilising effect on the rest of the world absolutely.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Suuure.... if the US democracy fails, Sweden is going to become a dictatorship. Australia is going to revert to full-on monarchy. Japan's going to go full Shogun.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Japan will go robot Shogun in space clearly. Probably invade Mad Maxville aka the country formerly known as Australia

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

I think that is a tad dramatic. The other democracies aren't lambs surrounding by wolves.

[–] dreamer@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Yes Trump will annihilate whatever semblance of democracy we have left in the United States. He plans on suspending congress, consolidating the courts, and expanding his ability of the executive branch without any checks and balances. He will begin to supercede democratic state governments, and the courts will rule in his favor or he will make them. He will sack any military official that doesn't align with his agenda, and deploy them domestically, even if just to instill fear in dissidents. Furthermore he'll transfer full control of the federal reserve to his office. Slowly eroding our constitutional rights and then he'll even extend his presidential term by another ten years.

This is what you will get if you vote for Trump.

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