this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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In the same week large swaths of the US were under extreme heat warnings, Joe Biden’s Justice Department filed its most recent motion to dismiss a landmark climate case by arguing that nothing in the Constitution guarantees the right to a secure climate.

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[–] andysteakfries@lemmy.world 117 points 1 year ago (4 children)

They're right though. There is nothing in the US constitution that guarantees the right to a healthy environment.

Cool that it isn't stopping them from putting a lot of climate action in motion.

What a dumb article.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Not only is there nothing in the constitution to prevent them from adding to it, the forefathers urged us to do so, and created systems for exactly that reason. The forefathers weren't dummies, they were smart guys. That's why they created something that is supposed to be a living document.

[–] andysteakfries@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

We should do that! It's a great idea to add to and modify the document that shapes our rights.

I can think of three new amendments I'd want right away. But I can't sue the government on the basis of laws that don't exist.

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago

I think the compromises they struck have put a lot of that wishful thinking out of reach.

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[–] dmmeyournudes@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The rules in the Constitution are only relevant so far as they are within the ability of the government to provide. Outlawing slavery, the right to free speech, the right to vote, these can all be provided and protected by the government. The global climate can only be protected by ensuing that the rest of the world does not ruin the climate, in other words, the US would have to invade any country that endangers the climate for is citizens to ensure that right. This is why the Constitution does not provide he right to travel anywhere outside of US borders either.

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the US would have to invade any country that endangers the climate for is citizens to ensure that right.

The US has invaded several countries to ensure their citizens have the right to cheap oil, which is also not covered in the constitution.

[–] dmmeyournudes@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (22 children)

And you've proven my point.

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[–] Melpomene@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Constitution's failure to provide protections for travel between countries does not preclude a right to travel internationally. Rather, the Constitution provides explicit protections for travel between states. While the Supreme Court has ruled that the government may reasonably restrict international travel, the position remains somewhat controversial among scholars and still requires due process of law.

Similarly, the Constitution is not limited to the rights a government can provide. Indeed, many of the rights enumerated restrict government action. For example, the right to free expression is, at its core, the right to be free of government interference with speech. The right to have soldiers not quartered in one's home is a mandate that the government NOT do something.

A right to a secure climate might seem silly because it's something that the government cannot provide in its entirety, but a Constitutional right to an inhabitable environment would not necessarily require extraterritorial action. If the right were understood to cover only those actions and inactions that fell within the United States' sovereign power, then it would only obligate the government to act within the scope of its power.

[–] dmmeyournudes@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I did not say that the US government does not provide protections beyond what the Constitution says, nor does any of the included things prove that it can not provide protections to freedom of expression, etc, inside of its own borders.

[–] Melpomene@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You suggested that to enforce a right to a stable climate would depend on the government's ability to provide the framework of a stable climate worldwide. While global protections would certainly be ideal, a right to a stable climate could and would likely be construed as an obligation to provide the framework for climate friendly policies within its own borders. Whether the right exists or no (and it probably doesn't,) its existence does not hinge on it being possible to apply it globally.

Though a technicality, the 1st amendment DOES apply globally. The U.S. government can't restrict your speech because you happen to be in, say, Canada. They are under no obligation to protect you from Canada's government or Canada's laws, but they are obligated to refrain from restricting your speech themselves.

The difference between negative rights (government refrains from interfering and prevents other from interfering) and positive rights (government is required to provide something) is important.

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[–] justastranger@sh.itjust.works 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The Constitution also explicitly states that we have rights not enumerated in the Constitution.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

That's true I always forget about that.

I find penumbral reasoning compelling in its own right.

But the Ninth Amendment is express:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

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[–] soviettaters@lemm.ee 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There isn't. That doesn't mean that this isn't a noble cause, but come on. There's no point in using the Constitution as the deciding factor of all that is good.

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Americans are utterly obsessed with their constitution. They treat it like a holy book, despite (and perhaps sometimes because of) the fact that it's pretty much impossible to convince enough people to change these days, despite it also needing changes.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This is a legal proceeding and the constitution is the fundamental basis for legal precedence in the US.

The government's argument is not that this right cannot exist but that it is not presently defined.

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[–] JingJang@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Thanks.

I was going to say, that it's not an environmental document and climate science was barely a thing when it was written. (meteorology was but not climate science as we know it).

[–] Syringe@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Good to know that nobody will be held accountable for the end of the world.

[–] Driftking@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

Can you, for one moment, stop thinking about the earth and instead focus on the profits and shareholder interests? Dont be selfish

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[–] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I mean...it doesn't

Who thinks it does? What a silly idea

[–] zib@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Correct, the constitution does not literally call out the right to a stable climate, however it's kinda hard to make good on any other constitutional right if populations being culled by extreme heat becomes the new worldwide norm.

[–] andysteakfries@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Yes, we should take aggressive action to eliminate every trace of fossil fuels currently in use.

But also, bringing legal action to enforce a law that pretty plainly doesn't exist doesn't do anyone any good.

[–] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Cool, but don't try to make the legal argument that the Constitution says so and so when it doesn't. It's a giant waste of time and money.

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[–] CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Time for a new amendment then, bitches. Let's fucking do this.

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[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Breaking news: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include a right to a liveable environment.

(yes I know this is from the DOI, not the constitution, and has no legal force)

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How can one live without a stable environment?

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Apparently, the right to life and the right to keep living are two very different things to the justice department.

Then again, why are we surprised when a life spent is solitary confinement does not meet the definition of "cruel and unusual punishment" for the same group.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago

Uncomfortably.

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[–] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.sdf.org 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apparently right to life is not right to live

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To be fair, it's the other side that has all that "right to life" hypocrisy.

Yeah, that's true. Man, our options kinda suck.

[–] kaffiene@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What does the constitution day about computers and cars and genetic engineering?

[–] Stinkywinks@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Pack it in folks, we don't have the right to live. Constitution doesn't mean shit if there is no one around to read it.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

The Jacobin is such a rag lol.

Biden's done more for climate policy than every President before him combined, and the DOJ is no more "his" here than it is when it prosecutes Donald Trump.

Americans, legally, do not have a constitutional right to anything regarding the climate. This makes standing on climate policy difficult (but clearly not impossible, as the article itself notes) to prove.

This isn't some "gotcha"

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, technically the Justice Department is correct. Which on the other hand should not imply that the government should just keep out of it.

But the climate change was mainly caused by people and corporations, so they are the ones to blame.

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[–] FunderPants@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The constitution gotta protect guns in case the king of England invades your F250 but heaven forbid you protect the environment.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

If someone’s invading your guns have already failed.

[–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like this is worded to be a jab at JB when it really shouldn't be. Unfortunately it is true. At best they can say people have a right to not have the government subsidise the oil industry, mining operations and other things that are directly damaging, but they can't guarantee clean air.

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