this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2024

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Welp, here come the meat-based plants. (www.wired.com)

submitted 10 months ago by LeanFemurs@lemmy.world to c/vegan@lemmy.world

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[–] hersh 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The lengths people will go to just to avoid learning how to properly cook vegetables...

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Eh I'm keen. I didn't stop eating pigs because they taste bad or are unhealthy or whatever. I stopped because it's a moral atrocity.

If someone wants to be like "here is a transgenic soybean that tastes like that thing you like" whether that's crustaceans, pigs, or Apple tart then fuck yeah I'm down to enjoy it.

Plus if it makes it easier for carnists to change more will so that'd be nice.

[+] CeeBee@lemmy.world -15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

carnists

That word really does paint a picture of the speaker.

Edit: wow! I did not realize I was in c/vegans. The downvotes just solidified that "picture of the vegan speaker".

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It is literally the accepted academic term for followers of the ideology that considers the use of specific non human animals as foodstuffs and materials acceptable. As opposed to various religious ideologies or philosophical ones such as veganism.

Like stuff has names, idk what to tell you. Getting bent up over being part of a named category is as silly as people who insist they're not heterosexual or cisgender or whatever.

If you're interesting in learning about the topic I can recommend Psychologist and researcher Melany Joy's book "why we love dogs, eat pigs, and wear cows" which explores this in a western context.

[–] CeeBee@lemmy.world -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It is literally the accepted academic term for followers of the ideology that considers the use of specific non human animals as foodstuffs and materials acceptable.

That's fair, but I've never heard it used outside of a vegan talking about how terrible "other" people are.

I also did NOT realize which sub I was on. That's what I get for browsing all and then walking into a non-carnivorous lion's den.

Like stuff has names, idk what to tell you. Getting bent up over being part of a named category is as silly as people who insist they're not heterosexual or cisgender or whatever.

I'm not bent in any way. Like I said, the only people I've ever heard that word used are vegans. And it's always said in a snide way as a derogatory term.

If you're interesting in learning about the topic I can recommend Psychologist and researcher Melany Joy's book "why we love dogs, eat pigs, and wear cows" which explores this in a western context.

Nah I'm good. I love dogs and cows. And cows are tasty too.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's actually a documented phenomena that carnists feel more negative judgement from vegans than vegans actually judge carnists.

You have to remember that almost all of us were raised carnist, and many spent decades following the ideology before changing our minds. I went vegan at like 25, for all I know you're 21 and will go vegan at 23 thus being a "better" person than me :p

I really would encourage reading, consider that almost all vegans were convinced in the face of inertia and overwhelming social pressure not to change. Consider also that at literally any point in the past we can see behaviours only a minority were calling out which we now find staggeringly cruel.

You don't have to agree, but you only stand to gain by learning.

[+] CeeBee@lemmy.world -2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 months ago

So a lot of this is just straight up wrong but it's so scattershot it's difficult to even address. I fail to see what this has to do with learning about what carnism is.

The stuff about wild animals is just the naturalistic fallacy, like that argument applies equally well against treating illness because in the wild the weak and sick die brutally. It's like, ok? so what? We're not wild snapping turtles, or musk rats, or great white sharks. We can behave in different ways.

The stuff about health is just wrong, there are definitely a few high profile people who have claimed malnutrition however having such broad medical knowledge you will know self reporting sucks and can't be relied on. You'll also know that people tend to rationalise their actions and about the power of the placebo and nocebo effects. Unless they were clinically examined it's not worth much.

The stuff about obsessing over food and time/expense is also false. Most of us just eat whatever and do fine. I mean I have no deficiencies and and only take d3 (Australia, pale, sun is unsafe unprotected had to take when carnist too) and b12 which is cheap. Actual studies reflect similar rates of deficiencies to meat eaters with a few differences like iron being slightly more common than some plant nutrient and generally better serum levels of cholesterol.

All of this is also beside the ethical point. Like it's entirely possible that the moral thing to do is just hard, or even self destructive. Like most people would agree that if you had to take food from someone else who would starve or starve yourself the moral thing is to starve. Fortunately it's entirely possible to live a healthy life on a plant based diet, but even if it wasn't ethics would probably demand being almost entirely plant based and eating the minimum amount of animal products obtained with the least impact to survive which isn't the compromise you're advocating.

[–] neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago

Banned for carnist propaganda. It expires in a month, please don't come back with these hot takes when it expires

[–] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 15 points 10 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism:

Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat.

[–] the_q@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Just like your reply paints a picture...

[–] CeeBee@lemmy.world -2 points 10 months ago

How so?

[–] mriormro@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

This article is talking about soy beans.

[–] Rob@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I’d say this is a great step forward. However much I’d like it, there’s no way people will just stop eating meat overnight. Anything that ends up hurting fewer animals for human consumption is a welcome change — whether it is lab-grown meat or enriched vegetable proteins.

[–] neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

They know that you can eat these plants without the need to genetically alter them to be more like pigs? I really don't understand the appeal for this

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mean the appeal is yummy? Like you're welcome to go eat the ancestor of apples or stick to seeded watermelons or whatever. You can even prefer the old thing, find the new flavour bad. Hell it's even acceptable to find the whole thing creepy but to not understand seems a deliberate choice.

People enjoy the taste of meat to the extent they are willing to build demonic factories of agony in order to eat world destroying amounts of it. Many people protest taste as a reason to keep on with this holocaust, and while they may be lying perhaps it would move the needle for them. Many vegans or vegetarians also enjoy foodstuffs that mimic flavours or textures found in flesh.

/shrug seems understandable

[–] neurospice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I might have been vegan for too long to have that perspective. I never understood the taste side of things with meat, because it was always the spices that made the flavor for me - never the flesh or meat proteins.

IMO, I think the people using taste as a means to justify this holocaust are just trying to cope without thinking too much about the topic. I think they're just buying into propaganda to think that they like (and need) meat. Like, if you give them vegan food that tastes good they like it, but then when they find out it's vegan they no longer like it as it tastes 'weird' and doesn't fit into the meat good narrative.

I don't think I'm deliberating trying to not understand this, and I do appreciate your response. I can see how it might seem I am deliberately being obtuse.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago

Fair enough. I've been vegan for 7 years now, and was pesco (facepalm, so close to getting the point) for about 8 prior. I defs get skeezed out a bit when something tastes a bit too realistic but that's in large part remembering past complicity and the ongoing horror.

If the world was different I'd feel different. I do also like to play with MSG and shiitake mushroom reductions etc to make very rich tasting food sometimes, and would enjoy the opportunity to eat stuff that tasted crustaceanesque as I've never been able to reproduce something like it.

I do agree that some of it is likely rationalisation, but also with ethical behaviour lowering barriers has a huge impact. For example putting bins closer has a bigger impact on not littering than educational signs about the impact. Idk I think people are just a little bit lazy sometimes and making stuff more familiar might help.