this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 97 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (13 children)

The "belief" we're in a simulation is more like a interesting idea than something people organize their lives around. Is it possible? Yes. Am I going to praise the great programmer every Sunday? No.

The belief in God in most cases is not just belief in some general higher power but a very specific deity with weird morality, silly mythology and bunch of scam artists behind it.

  • I think there's a higher power...
  • Ok...
  • that got mad at us for eating fruits but then impregnated a lady with itself and pissed us off so that we murdered him and he could say he's not mad anymore.
  • ... WTF?
[–] 5wim@slrpnk.net 13 points 9 months ago (7 children)

I more or less agree, but you keep using "believe" when you ought to use "belief." Just FYI.

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[–] RIPandTERROR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Could an all powerful, loving God be real? Sure. Why not?

Could a powerful, all loving God be real? Yeah, seems realistic. In many ways, I am a God to an ant.

Could an all powerful all loving God be real?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no.

God is either inept, indifferent, or a straight up ass. None of those items are something I care to worship, even at the threat of the eternal damnation.

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[–] dpkonofa@lemmy.world 56 points 9 months ago (58 children)

There’s no hypocrisy here.

On one hand, the belief in a god doesn’t just end there. There are beliefs in what that god does and what he has control over. So it’s completely logical to believe that there’s no god (although, as someone else pointed out, it’s also not random arrangements of atoms).

On the other hand, simulation theory is a logical theory to rationalize the “purpose” of why we exist. It’s not a belief. The simulation doesn’t respond to prayers or requests. It’s simply conjecture or hypothesis to explain the “why” of the universe. No one who talks about simulation theory (much less who “believes” in it) pretends that the creator of the simulation is uniquely interested in them and responds to their requests and tells them how to live their life. In fact, that would go against the entire concept of simulation theory.

Religion and religious belief have specific definitions. This feels just as dishonest as people claiming that LGBTQ ideology is a religion or that evolution is a “belief”.

[–] balderdash9@lemmy.zip 18 points 9 months ago (7 children)

You're assuming belief in the Abrahamic God to make your argument easier. But not all theists subscribe to such a position. And belief in a disinterested god who created the universe seems just as plausible as believing in a disinterested programmer who wrote a simulation.

[–] conneru64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 9 months ago

Those conjectures aren't just equally plausible, they're the same thing.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I think their point is belief versus theory. One requires faith, the other thought.

It's why it's simulation theory and not Simulationism. People acknowledge it, but don't follow it, nor believe it, since belief requires clearing unknown gaps with leaps of faith to reach an unknown destination. Theory seeks answers of the unknown with "could be this, could not be this" whereas belief is "it be this".

This always points back to the paradox which all divinity falls into. The moment we know of a god to be real, it is old news and no longer divine. The next scientific step is "What made it so?" and moves right along to bigger things whether theists are on board or not.

Of the few words ending with -ism and -ist in science or theory, none have belief or faith.

Even the most apparent, such as the Big Bang Theory, are still marked a theory, after all. Believing in them—convinction without 100% knowledge—is foolish and closes doors of what may actually be truth.

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[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Of course it's a belief. Any position held as fact in the absence of evidence is a belief, and is irrational by definition.

It also absolutely does not provide an explanation of "purpose". Someone else already wrote a good comment about why that is.

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[–] guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.works 44 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

I don't see the hypocrisy. If the universe is a simulation, that wouldn't make whoever built the universe a god. There would be no analytical reason to conclude that, unless we started from the specially-crafted supposition that any being capable of creating something like the observable universe had to be equivalent to God, but at that point, you're just defining your way into theism. If the universe is a simulation, which is not a terribly interesting thought experiment tbh, then it could be a simulation for any reason. The simulators could have been interested in the dynamics of gas and dust dispersion within galaxies and just so happened to create a sophisticated enough simulation that it could simulate the evolution of natural life. If the entire Universe had been "created" (although the point of defining it as a simulation is to point to how it doesn't really exist, ipso facto if God is a simulator, then God is not a Creator in the sense theists mean) to study dust dynamics at the galactic scale, somehow I think theists would be dissatisfied and not feel like they had really found what they meant by "God."

In theory, any type of Boltzman Brain could assemble itself at any time and start processing information, so in theory, a simulation could also be an entirely natural phenomenon occurring in a higher-order reality. The two ideas are different, even though Christians like to claim everyone is a theist and everything is theism even when they aren't and it isn't.

Anyways, the simulation hypothesis is sort of fun to think about sometimes, while "I invoke supernatural powers to explain phenomena I don't understand" isn't all that interesting.

[–] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

that wouldn't make whoever built the universe a god.

Well yeah they would have to open the console and type in.

sv_cheats 1

god

Then they would be god.

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[–] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 37 points 9 months ago (10 children)

I've literally never met someone who claimed we actually live in a simulation though

[–] darcy@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

yeah its a strawman (checkmate athiest)

[–] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)
[–] Scrappy@feddit.nl 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Russellbush@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I saw a theory by some physicists that there is some evidence we may be a hologram but I'm not smart enough to understand exactly what that means. Sounds neat

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[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 32 points 9 months ago

They are similar in that neither are scientific theories, as they are equally non-falsifiable. We may live in a universe where it is impossible to see the face of god or a glitch in the matrix by construction.

Given that impossibility, how then could you perform an experiment or make an observation that contradicts the theory? To be reductive, science isn't about proving. It's failing to disprove. If there isn't a set of circumstances in which a theory can be disproven, it isn't scientific.

Unless you are a string theorist. Then you just say whatever the hell you want.

[–] DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 27 points 9 months ago

I don't think anyone actually believes the latter except room temperature IQ tech bros. It's mostly just a hypothetical.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 25 points 9 months ago (10 children)

Could (a) god(s) exist? Possibly, it's hard to rule out the supernatural in natural terms since it's SUPERnatural

Could the universe be a simulation? Possible too, but also on of those things that's almost impossible to prove.

At the same time, it could be that your e a Boltzmann brain, and that literally nothing existed before and that your brain just kinda formed together spontaneously with all your memories.

All those are possible options that are over 99% likely to be false, but their cooouuullldd be true.

Point is not to rearrange your life on the off changlce that one of those are true. Especially religion, since religions tend to be "believe our particular god(s) or you go to hell for eternity" followed closely by "if you don't believe our particular god(s) we will help you go to hell right now". Nearly all human conflicts in Earth's history were either based on religion or used religion as a tool to whip up the masses to go kill the others.

There are also hundreds of Gods and over 3000 different religious figures out there and they're all pretty much exclusive or, they all claim to be the right one and the rest is wrong. Bold claim to make when it's all based off goat herders texts that were first abused for a completely different god (hello, Christianity!) and constantly conflicts with each other.

Simulation theory and Boltzman brain ideas are fun to entertain and talk and think about, but they've never been used to control who can love and have sex with who, they've never been a used whereas religion just IS abuse and control in every way possible.

I do not like religion

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[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago (9 children)

One of those is a belief and the other is a theory.

One requires the absence of evidence and the other requires evidence.

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[–] voidMainVoid@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago

Are you a farmer? Because you have an awful lot of straw!

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Does anyone base their lives and their worldviews around the simulation theory?

[–] themelm@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago

Its such a philosophical dead end. I know a few people who really want the world to be a simulation but I cant understand why. I think they want an excuse to have nothing matter and be shitty.

But i would not live my life any differently if we found out that this is a simulation. Because its still real to me and there's no reason to believe I can exist outside the simulation any more than my sims can exist outside the game.

[–] Rustmilian@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

We do live in a simulation and I can prove it.
Stick your whole hand up your ass and push the secret eject key.

[–] darcy@sh.itjust.works 8 points 9 months ago

just did this. didnt work but i learnt something about myself.

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[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 9 months ago

bad religion bait post is bad

[–] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (11 children)

Both are just as unlikely as the other and have as much evidence, I'd find anyone who possesed both beliefs to be weird.

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[–] OnopordumAcanthium@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Reading all these comments... People love to judge. ffs let people believe whatever they want. You can disagree with their preferences without declaring them as dumb or misguided. It's even pretty arrogant to dismiss others view of why reality exists when literally no one knows the answer to that.

[–] DriftinGrifter@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Its preety arrogant to believe anything without hard evidence tbh

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[–] Godric@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

Makes me miss my old roommate, who didn't believe in God but believed this all could be a simulation. Hope you're doing well buddy, wherever the fuck you've wandered!

[–] confluence@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Dr. Blitz called Simulation Theory religion for tech bros and I can't get it out of my head 😅

[–] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It's always the worst people who believe this too. The only interpretation of Simulation Theory that I will even remotely entertain is the one that we're all information stuck on the surface of a black hole, because it's the only one that isn't just there to feed tech bros' god complex.

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[–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Uh, not random. Evolution has a system.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Evolution is just random. The "system" is just the good random changes live and the bad don't.

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