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One sort of low-key notable about this is that GA has a long history of being VERY aggressive with RICO rules. It tends to be unusually easy to get affiliated individuals all on the same charges by association in Georgia.
I wouldn't place a bet one way or the other, but it would not surprise me if some or even all of the indictments are being applied to multiple conspiring defendants. And if that were the case, it would be odd for the organization's executive to be walking away clean.
Yeah, I’ve read elsewhere that it’s much easier to prosecute this sort of thing under RICO in Georgia than with the equivalent federal law.
Between that and the fact that state charges are immune to presidential pardon, I think these could easily be some of the most consequential charges.
GA has a pretty fucking grim history of using these laws to rob people of civil liberties in pretty bad ways. They have used it to crush freedom of speech with musicians and educators, all kinds of minimally-affiliated "gang" activity, and other bullshit like that. As you'd expect from a state that is pretty firmly in the hand of the anti-civil-rights GOP and Brian "I also used the authority of my office to interfere with my own election to ensure my own victory" Kemp.
But at least in this case, the baddies are definitely baddies.
much easier to prosecute this sort of thing under RICO in Georgia than with the equivalent federal law
The Atlantic had some commentary about how broad the Georgia indictment is, compared to the Federal one for Jan 6. Basically, Jack Smith is looking at the political calendar, and wants to have very narrow charges that can go to trial quickly. A broader, comprehensive set of charges would result in a more complicated, slower trial, with the possibility that Trump might win in 2024 and then just terminate the whole thing. If Smith wins the earlier trial, he can still come back and bring wider charges, against, say, all the co-conspirators, but the first trial needs to happen early.
The Georgia one is less constrained by this political calendar, and the DA can bring the broadest range of charges into play, to show most of what Trump & Co were doing.
The drawback to what Georgia is doing is setting a precedent for local prosecutors to bring charges against former Presidents. You can imagine political revenge by some rinky dink GOP prosecutor in Oklahoma or something indicting Biden out of spite.
setting a precedent for local prosecutors to bring charges against former Presidents
We very much want to set the precedent that Presidents are not above the law. Without that precedent the country will not remain a democracy.
You can imagine political revenge by some rinky dink GOP prosecutor in Oklahoma or something indicting Biden out of spite.
They would have to have 12 random citizen jurors agree that the charges are serious. We have checks and balances for that.
They reported that it's Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, and 16 other people too.
Ugh. Not that I don't want to see all of them behind bars, but that many defendants means the trial is going to proceed really slowly. If this is true, I wouldn't expect a verdict in this case before election day.
I would expect because this is a state criminal case, Georgia has to wait until the two federal cases are concluded before they get a shot at the big names, but I could be wrong. Usually with RICO cases, it's said they hope most of those others cut plea deals and turn on the bigger names.
Oh man, the response he posted to his lie.social account is fucking hilarious. tHeY CoUlD HaVfE BrOuGhT ThIs tWo aNd a hAlF YeArS AgO and iNtEnTiOnAlLy sLoW-WaLkEd iNvEsTiGaTiOnS as if he hasn't been fighting all of these investigations every step of the way.
Also, I think he's getting tired, he forgot to come up with a braindead nickname for AG James
Donald sped this timeline up, his attack on former Lt. Governor Duncan saying he shouldn't testify is the most likely reason they kept the courthouse open late and ran the rest of the witnesses today. It was also pretty much a forgone conclusion this was coming when that paperwork accidentally came out tonight, I'm interested in how these 10 charges differ from the charges that were leaked earlier today.
EDIT: From what the reporters asked the DA when she announced the charges, what was on the leaked document is the same as the indictment handed down. That means somebody at the clerks office must have jumped the gun.
I think you're right. He posted that at like 9 local this morning before all the fun started, so must have played a major role in moving it up a day.
Interesting timing. Looks like the names/charges won't be revealed until around midnight, local time. If you're a full-on unhinged MAGA crazy it's not going to matter when the news comes out, but for some other potentially violent types, there's a bit of a cooling off period to announcing at midnight on a weeknight.
Think about it. If you found out about the indictments in the afternoon and you were angry about them, you'd have all evening to drink yourself stupid while brooding over the injustice of it all. But if you find out at midnight, you're probably thinking, "fuck it, I've got work in the morning and I need to keep this shit job," and you might not drink/enrage yourself to the point of impulsively deciding to go shoot something up. The anger/resentment are still there, but maybe won't reach the point of physical action.
For us who are not American, can you please explain what is meant by the indictments where returned?
Of course! A “grand jury” is essentially a group of citizens who decide whether there is enough evidence to accuse someone of a crime. An “indictment” is the document that lists the crimes that the grand jury is charging the suspect with, saying that there is enough evidence to try him in court.
So this is saying that the Georgia grand jury has decided to charge Trump (and an unknown number of others) with crimes linked in some way with interfering in the 2020 Election in Georgia. The case will now eventually go to trial.
Let me know if there’s anything that’s unclear (or incorrect I’m not a lawyer haha)
Thank you for your reply! This is clear.
if you are into reading this is a very thorough explanation of both the process in general and how it applies to this particular case going on
This primer answers questions about what to expect in the days ahead: the operation of the Georgia grand jury, various arraignment and pre-trial legal issues that will arise as the case proceeds, and the consequences Trump and others are facing.
I just don't see how she is going to be able to try all 19 at one time. She was surprisingly nice to allow them over a week to turn themselves in, they must turn themselves in by noon on Friday the 25th unless they are on a no-fly list or something, that's a lot of time for them to try and slink away.
The document leak from early today is going to give them something to grasp onto and scream about though. This entire indictment is a giant fuck you to all those slimy attorneys he surrounded himself with that encouraged the fake elector's scheme.
Edit: I also don't see any way she is going to get this trial started within six months.
Reminder that Steve Bannon frankly confessed Trump's Start the Steal conspiracy plans to a group of Trump insiders before the election.
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/22/1112138665/jan-6-committee-hearing-transcript
…audio from Trump advisor, Steve Bannon, surfaced from October 31st, 2020, just a few days before the Presidential election.
Let’s listen. [Begin Videotape]
STEVE BANNON: And what Trump’s going to do is declare victory, right? He’s going to declare victory, but that doesn’t mean he’s a winner. He’s just gonna say he’s a winner. The Democrats — more of our people vote early that count. Theirs vote in mail. And so they’re going to have a natural disadvantage and Trump’s going to take advantage — that’s our strategy.
He’s gonna declare himself a winner. So when you wake up Wednesday morning, it’s going to be a firestorm. Also — also if Trump is — if Trump is losing by 10 or 11:00 at night, it’s going to be even crazier. Because he’s gonna sit right there and say they stole it. If Biden’s wining, Trump is going to do some crazy shit.