this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:

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[–] dr_scientist@lemmy.world 85 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Two things here. I was forced to go induction when I moved house about fifteen years ago, and I love it. It's just better than gas. I'm terrible at many things, but I'm a good cook, and I can say, there's nothing I can do - nothing - that isn't better on induction. Admittedly, not crazy about the waste of new things, but even so, worth it.

Also, turns out, Big Natural Gas lied to you. It's dangerous (which the article states). This is a carrot and stick. I'm all electric, and working on solar soon.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 28 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Agreee, and a third thing. Gas usage for cooking is so small, it's really a non-issue.

Gas usage for heating is the big one we need to curtail. Having a culture war on cooking ranges is a distraction.

[–] chrizzowski@lemmy.ca 28 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's not a distraction so much as it's the bait. Gas cooking gets the utility serviced to the building, which enables the gas furnace vs electric heat pump conversation. Gas furnace is cheaper up front, so that's what goes into suburbia.

Builders and developers will always do the absolutely cheapest thing possible to stay competitive, and will only do better when they're either legislated to or consumers demand it. Home builders associations lobby to keep minimum requirements ... minimal, and most consumers just see pretty showers and big kitchen islands, so this is why we still build houses like it's 1980.

Always amuses me how many people care about gas mileage on a $50k car but couldn't give two shits if their $2m home is efficient.

Source: I'm a home designer who frequently has this conversation and that's usually how it goes down.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Then you are living in an area that is running a bit behind.

Once you electrify heating, no one is going to pay for a gas line in new construction.

We (Netherlands) had these conversations go down like this 5 years ago. Now, no new home construction is running a gas line.

[–] chrizzowski@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago

Canada, and yeah when it comes to how we build we are definitely behind. Oil and gas is so entrenched in the economy, especially western provinces, that any going against that is blasphemy to a significant chunk of the population. It will get better though. We can already do better, the incentive just isn't there.

I'm a certified passive house designer and I'm always jealous of all the products and materials available in Europe!

[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago

However, gas stoves will still kill you. They won't kill the environment as bad as they kill you, true, but you're still dead.

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[–] lettruthout@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Agreed on both points. As a trial we got a cheap induction hot plate and really like it. We also learned that we want a range that doesn’t have a noisy fan and has a continuous very low setting.

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[–] SpaghettiYeti@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Weirdly, I'm in the opposite boat. I have solar, I grew up with an electric oven/stovetop and my previous house had an induction stovetop. I hate, and I mean hate induction and electric for stovetops.

My new house has gas and it is just the best. I love cooking on my wok, my pans heat up in no time, and I feel like I can gauge and control the heat better.

Yes, air flow, exhaust, and air purifying is taken into account to use it safely too in my home.

[–] intelisense@lemm.ee 23 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

If your pans are taking time to heat up, you probably had resistive plates, not induction. Induction is FAST - fast to heat up, but also fast to cool down. It's very similar to cooking on gas.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They probably had glass-ceramic. A lot of people confuse those for induction, since they basically look the same when it's off: a black glass plate.

When it's on, the glass-ceramic lights up and becomes red or purple, while induction stays black.

Induction is faster than gas. I have never met anyone who prefers gas to induction after using induction for a while.

[–] SeducingCamel@lemm.ee 3 points 9 months ago

Buying an induction cooker has made cooking in apartments with shitty coils so much better, I don't even want gas in the future anymore. We're considering getting a cover for the range and just buying 2 more induction tops

[–] Slotos@feddit.nl 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Try curved induction plate. Wok doesn’t work with flat induction plates because the moment you start moving it, you’re not heating it anymore.

Induction is objectively superior in heating speed and heat control. But if your cooking technique doesn’t work with it, the previous statement is meaningless.

[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If your cooking technique involves flipping rice past the flame so oil catches fire a little, then gas is the only option.

[–] Slotos@feddit.nl 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago

Now I want to try smoky fried rice.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 34 points 9 months ago (7 children)

When people think of electric stoves, they think of resistance not induction. If people had more experience with induction, I'm sure they'd be less resistant to the change.

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[–] systemguy_64@lemmy.world 29 points 9 months ago (5 children)

This should be required watching for every moron who claims gas is better.

If you need that instant temperature drop, remove it from the heat??

Also, induction is even better. Hopefully they become affordable and not priced like fancy appliances in the next decade.

[–] glencairn84@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (6 children)

The main advantage for gas isn't speed, it's control. I have both gas and electric, standard halogen etc type stoves are junk compared to the fine (also instant, consistent, and reliably easy to gauge) control that gas hobs provide. Not to mention a very even heat . But I agree modern induction finally provide that similar level of control (though the one induction hob I've used, while excellent granular control, did seem to heat unevenly requiring the pan to be regularly turned to avoid one-sided burning).

[–] baru@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

did seem to heat unevenly requiring the pan to be regularly turned to avoid one-sided burning).

That's due to the heating area being incredibly tiny on various crappy induction stoves.

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[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

IKEA has induction cooktops for like $600 or 700 bucks. They're made by Frigidaire and are backed by a 5-year warranty... If you buy from home Depot that same Frigidaire cooked up, you could only get a 1-year warranty. Otherwise it's the same exact product.

Okay, the price went up a little bit:

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/saerklassig-induction-cooktop-black-20462066/

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[–] NZV65572@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Induction is great, switch 1 yr ago. Most cookware works, not just cast iron.

Pro tip: if want to know if your pan works with induction, take a magnet and see if it sticks to the pan. If it sticks, it will heat!

[–] aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago

Some non-magnetic cookware can still be used on induction heaters

[–] lntl@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

How many tons of co2/methane are emitted annually from residential ovens and ranges?

I feel like this number is small and am curious if anyone has chased this rabbit.

[–] RvTV95XBeo@sh.itjust.works 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.0c00437

Electrifying everything but the gas stove means keeping the entire gas distribution system, which leaks like a sieve.

[–] BulbasaurBabu@lemmings.world 7 points 9 months ago

Well why are they building them out of sieves?

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[–] Cagi@lemmy.ca 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago

I cut our gas line 2 years ago from our house! Feels good. Also didn't want to have to invest in a seismic shut off gas valve.

And the heat pump gives us air conditioning, which is a win-win.

[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Spent the first 1/3 of adult life with gas and the latter 2/3 with electric. It's not hard to adapt cooking methods. Food still comes out just fine. It also makes one more adept at cooking when say, traveling and having to use who knows what terrible stove/cooking object.

I'd much rather figure out how to adapt to an electric cooking device that I could 100% self-power if need be, than continue to use an explosive cooking device pumping chemicals I don't want into my home because the natural gas companies don't processed the gas to remove them.

Gas had a place in homes in the 19th and early 20th century when we didn't know better, not anymore.

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[–] paysrenttobirds@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago

I love induction, myself, but if you need a flame, there's countertop burners to help with the transition. No need to pipe gas through the whole city. There was just a gas explosion in an empty house (two days after closing!) down the road from us.

[–] CCatMan@lemmy.one 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There is a lot of tall about everyone replacing their stoves but it's expensive and really not needed. You can do 90% of your meals with counter top appliances and be good to go.

We have the following: portable induction cooktop top, 6 and 3 qt instapot, 5qt air fryer, and electric hot water kettle. These devices are used nearly everyday and if we need to use the gas stove we do, but it's pretty rare.

When the kitchen is renovated, an induction stove will be purchased, but for the last 5 years our counter top chefs have been great.

[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 3 points 9 months ago

I bought a replacement induction cooktop last year and it's an absolute game changer, but we went from an old crappy electric cooktop that was just awful.

[–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Demand the best cooking experience, get a propane tank installed, and use that to cook. Heating with natural gas is the big pollution source, and heat pumps (even if the electricity is generated from natural gas) beat it for total system efficiency.

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[–] calypsopub@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm an indifferent cook, so I don't really have a dog in this hunt. But I'd like to continue to have natural gas to run my whole-home generator in emergencies.

[–] RvTV95XBeo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

For an individual today? Fine. Long-term at scale? It seems silly and prohibitively expensive to maintain a bunch of leaky natural gas infrastructure just for a handful of seldom operated generators.

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[–] ravenbirdly@lemmy.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'd love to electrify my stove (and don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be whiny about it, I really do want to) but it has to be capable of getting a pan wok burner hot. I also cannot stand glass tops. Is there anything for me? I tried 2kw induction burner once with a heavy cast iron pan, and it was glacial compared to gas. I know people say they work great but how much do you have to pay to get one without glass that can get a pan literally smoking hot in under 2 minutes like gas can?

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