this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2023

60 points (84.1% liked)

Australia

3523 readers

76 users here now

A place to discuss Australia and important Australian issues.

Before you post:

If you're posting anything related to:

The Environment, post it to Aussie Environment
Politics, post it to Australian Politics
World News/Events, post it to World News
A question to Australians (from outside) post it to Ask an Australian

If you're posting Australian News (not opinion or discussion pieces) post it to Australian News

Rules

This community is run under the rules of aussie.zone. In addition to those rules:

When posting news articles use the source headline and place your commentary in a separate comment

Banner Photo

Congratulations to @Tau@aussie.zone who had the most upvoted submission to our banner photo competition

Recommended and Related Communities

Be sure to check out and subscribe to our related communities on aussie.zone:

Plus other communities for sport and major cities.

https://aussie.zone/communities

Moderation

Since Kbin doesn't show Lemmy Moderators, I'll list them here. Also note that Kbin does not distinguish moderator comments.

Additionally, we have our instance admins: @lodion@aussie.zone and @Nath@aussie.zone

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

lodion@aussie.zone

unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone

dalekerrigan@aussie.zone

Fluid@aussie.zone

bestusername@aussie.zone

eatham@aussie.zone

As a trans man, Max Simensen says he has unique insights everyone could learn from (www.abc.net.au)

submitted 9 months ago by Nath@aussie.zone to c/australia@aussie.zone

9 comments fedilink hide all child comments

all 13 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 17 points 9 months ago

Some truly interesting perspectives in this guy's story. I'm pretty conscious of some of this stuff as I raise two boys.

The bathroom and handshake things are real. Some things are more nuanced like the office admin stuff.

The diet one is new and baffling though. There's definitely office banter about food. I haven't ever been aware of it being gender based, though.

[+] AeroLemming@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] kerr@aussie.zone 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

No it’s a well-studied woman thing.

“… women tend to be underestimated more. They tend to be interrupted, more talked over more. They have to prove their competence more and we often feel uncomfortable when they're in positions of authority.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelleking/2021/10/26/the-authority-gap-why-women-are-still-taken-less-seriously-than-men/?sh=3ed8223e634d

[–] Soulg@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

That doesn't inherently discredit the idea that going from a child to an adult would not also contribute; people who wouldn't do that to a woman VS a man could still do it to a child, for example

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Oh dude I went the other way as an adult. I have a deep voice and I'm tall so I'm pretty obviously trans.

Even so people went from just default listening to me and taking my ideas seriously to just ignoring me half the time. It's most egregious with strangers, if I speak about anything technical people often overrule say my opinion on something physics (An area I'm pretty knowledgable in and relatively good at communicating) for some half remembered anecdote some man told them, previously they'd be like "Oh wow that's interesting, I always thought X" or something far more indicative that they listened.

[+] AeroLemming@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's pretty clear we live in a very sexist society. I think when people who aren't exposed to gender equality movements much hear that they think it's a claim of rabid misogyny. It's not that though, most people aren't frothing at the mouth to say how shit women are (although we have a particularly nasty problem with domestic violence which is quite violent), it manifests in ways such as:

finding women more annoying than men exhibiting the same behaviour
speaking over women without even noticing they've talked
requiring higher standards of evidence for statements made by women
not actively seeking out the opinions of women in conversation in favour of giving attention to men
demanding women adopt masculine mannerisms and socialisation to be taken seriously

It catches men in the crossfire too, men who fail to meet masculine standards are discounted. Think about short men, or men with higher pitched soft voices etc.

It's frustrating and why it's not enough to just try not be sexist, but to be specifically anti sexist. That is, to make a point of compensating for biases you probably don't want to express but were likely conditioned into expressing as a child in order to approach something more like truly fair treatment.

[–] loz@aussie.zone 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I’m pretty obviously trans.

That could be enough maybe? Anyone who is perceived as "strange" gets second hand citizenship, even if it's subtle.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago

Nah it happens even when I keep my mouth shut. Like men just look past you when looking for answers, people in shops will just ask a guy you're with what they want etc. Hell when I worked IT and people only knew my email signature I'd get the "can I get a man/someone more senior/an it specialist to look at this" after I'd give my opinion.

[–] FollyDolly@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

The part where the women was looking back over her shoulder at him and he turned around to check if someone was following them made me laugh.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 4 points 9 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

This is a glaring contrast to women's public bathrooms, which can feel like stepping into a feminist support group.

The chatter, the laughter, the occasional tears and waves of support for those crying makes for a heartening sense of camaraderie and solidarity.

It turns out that's how many men shake hands with each other — and I had a steep learning curve ahead to perfect this ritual.

If you have a feminine-sounding voice, it can lead to an onslaught of verbal abuse, harassment and misogyny from players online.

As a woman, you're made constantly aware of how much sound you're making where it seems that men aren't conditioned to be attuned to that at all.

At work I'm no longer asked, or expected, to organise gifts for farewells or birthdays, morning teas or lunches, or plans like booking meeting rooms, sending invites, taking minutes or extra administrative tasks.

The original article contains 1,494 words, the summary contains 148 words. Saved 90%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!