shouldnt the EMT be the responsible party to say 'no officer, this person does not have that problem'?
i wouldnt trust a cop with...well.. almost anything of mine personally. its outright terrifying they can make this medical decision.
this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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Technically EMS doesn't diagnose. We assess and treat symptoms to keep the patient stable until we can get them to a medical facility. Of course there are things that are blindingly easy to diagnose and generally most doctors won't tell you "you can't diagnose that open femur fracture, that's my job". But officially the line has always been that we don't diagnose so when we are recording and reporting things we will typically say something like "the patient is showing symptoms of XYZ" rather than "the patient has XYZ".
When it comes to dealing with police officially they are the only people that can involuntarily commit someone (at least in my area). And officially EMS has to respect that decision however that doesn't always happen. There used to be a cop in my area that used to try to do that to anyone who "was problematic" and that officer got really used to hearing no from EMS. Other times EMS works with police is when there is a danger on the scene. For example if you're called out for a gunshot wound and it is suspected that the gunman is still there then you don't go in. You stage a block or two away and let the blue canaries clear the place first.
Why are cops in the US making diagnoses?
Cops are not trained of medical personnel, and have ulterior motives
Fuck what the Pieces Of Shit Training Board says, why the fuck were paramedics giving someone ketamine?
There was another systemic failure here and this feels like smoke and mirrors.
Ketamine does have valid medical uses, namely pain killing and sedation, it's that in cases such as these it's completely unnecessary
That's my point. There are literally dozens of drugs that would have been more appropriate than ketamine in this situation.
Ketamine is widely considered one of the safest drugs, so safe that only cops could find a way to overdose someone on it.
I didn't say it wasn't safe...
You're confusing the chemical science of things like LD50s of substances, with recommended medical practice by medical bodies such as which specific medicines are appropriate in which medical situations.
Again: there are dozens of medicines that would have been more appropriate than ketamine in this situation.
Why would those other medications be more appropriate. What's the problem with Ketamine in the first place?
This is a question best answered by an actual doctor or pharmacist. My line of reasoning is about established medical procedure, not the pharmacology or psychopharmacology of each possible medicine or substance that could be used in this situation.
Ketamine doesn't carry the risk of respiratory depression and hypotension that other sedatives and pain killers do. No risk that you might have to immediately intubate someone.
Haloperidol is less risky still in terms of respiratory influence, though ketamine is faster acting.
But this doesn't really add anything, nor does it answer my question about why they didn't go with established medical procedure in this case that ended with the unnecessary death of a person, in no small part due to that break with procedure.
Sorry I was only addressing the reasoning behind paramedics being allowed to administer ketamine in the field and not other drugs. And reviewing this case, I don't see any indication for haloperidol either. They should not have drugged this person at all:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Elijah_McClain
But we should have teams of psychiatric professionals who are qualified to administer things like haloperidol responding to emergency calls that are specifically stated to be for psychiatric crises. I don't really want random paramedics in charge of choosing when to administer haloperidol, which can have significant and permanent side effects even after one dose.
Because k-holes fell great!