this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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[–] Nath@aussie.zone 43 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If Australian Sushi is cultural appropriation, I'd love to hear this person justify "New York Pizza".

New York Pizza is famous globally and recognised as something different to Italian style Pizza. Is that also cultural appropriation?

[–] Faceman2K23@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Chicago deep dish is another whole crazy thing too.

[–] Voyajer@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)
[–] Faceman2K23@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean, that's just a pan pizza that happens to be square but I'll give it to you as a valid regional variant.

I will also direct you to the wikipedia entry for "California-style Pizza" which contains some wild pictures of potentially illegal pizzas.

[–] Voyajer@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Detroit style does have that very thick crust throughout the whole pie to differentiate itself from Chicago style

[–] ajsadauskas@aus.social 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

@Voyajer @Faceman2K23 Just wait until the world learns about Lithuanian-style sushi. (And yep, it's a thing that actually exists. It's a slice of herring with beetroot, wrapped in mashed potatoes and sesame seeds.)

As for pizza — the modern variety was apparently developed by Italian-American migrants, and then introduced back to Italy: https://youtu.be/7uJ_996KlM0?si=RSq3X0TqsIkVNAr5

[–] thanksforallthefish 2 points 11 months ago

Damn I want to try that now !

[–] steal_your_face@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

America is the land of stealing other foods and making it their own

[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago

culture is a thing that evolves over time and place, it shouldn't have to be preserved in the "correct" version if the origin is acknowledged.

these things exist outside of western culture too. I'd be surprised if all the types of dumplings weren't derivatives of each other.

[–] crystal@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago (6 children)
[–] Satiric_Weasel@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's what 90% of people picture when they think of pizza.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 2 points 11 months ago

In the US maybe, not in the rest of the world.

They picture Italian pizza.

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[–] ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well, seeing as how tomatoes are from the Americas, who is appropriating who.

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 8 points 11 months ago

Oh boy! That's a whole different can of worms:
isn't it curious how similar pizza is to Middle Eastern flat breads with toppings? And how Italians invented spaghetti shortly after Marco Polo returned from China where he would have been exposed to noodle dishes?

[–] kerr@aussie.zone 28 points 11 months ago (1 children)

TIL Australian Sushi is a thing! It never occurred to me that they don’t have the easy to hold rolls in other parts of the world. I think they make up like 10% of my diet haha.

[–] Baku@aussie.zone 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

TIL too... I'm still not sure I understand what non Australian sushi is though. I just figured 'authentic' sushi would be what we have but with higher quality ingredients or potentially cut into slices to be easier to eat with chopsticks

[–] StorminNorman@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Sushi more refers to the vinegared rice in the dish. What we have here in Australia is actually made in Japan, but only really popular in certain parts of the country at certain festivals etc. They do make handrolls, but as you suggested, they are cut into pieces.

[–] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you ever eat sushi with salmon, that's a Norwegian "invention" that was made to sell more fish Japan. No country "owns" a dish.

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I think we can all agree as a society that as far as cultural sensitivity goes, food is off limits. You eat what you want how you want it and no one has the right to stop you. Yes they are allowed to think gross or no way I’d never eat that but there should also be respect for each other as individuals with different preferences. Personally I take the same view with sexuality and kinks, I don’t have to like it and I’m allowed to be grossed out a bit but at the end of the day people do what makes them happy and they’re no less caring, funny or thoughtful than the next person.

[–] tacosplease@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (9 children)

This is nonsense. Burgers are sold in damn near every country. The US is full of Americanized taco places and tex mex restaurants. We have "Chinese food" buffets that stock American versions of Chinese foods. We eat Pad Thai thinking it's a popular Thai dish when really it's just something they thought Americans would like. US has pubs that serve "fish and chips". There are French restaurants, Mongolian restaurants, Afghani restaurants... McDonald's sells spaghetti in Vietnam.

We all eat each other's foods. What is different about Australians having their own version of sushi? This seems entirely unremarkable.

[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

For a lot of the things you mention, one of the distinctions is that many of the foods were created by said ethicity, but adapted the cooking techniques and ingredients to the local pallet.

Edit: im not defending either side (i believe the chef is of japanese origin) its just there is a distinction between adapted foods and ones that arent.

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[–] WaterWaiver@aussie.zone 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Absolutely gorgeous article.

I had no idea our sushi rolls and banh mi were so divergent. How long until "Australian Banh Mi" is a thing overseas?

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The wonderful thing about food is that it's always changing. People shit on stuff for not being "authentic" but frankly I think it's delightful how different traditions come together to play. Mixing and matching until the local food reflects the available ingredients and preferences of the populous.

I mean I make a mean lemon tofu which is a derivative of lemon chicken which is a derivative of a Cantonese style that was adapted for churning out cheap and appealing food so migrants could work at takeaway stores and get visas.

Food tells a story, wherever you have it and however you have it. Appreciating that is imho the more joyful approach than trying to fix it in time.

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[–] BluesF@feddit.uk 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Cultural appropriation is such a strange issue. It's obvious to me that wearing someone's culture as a costume is fucked up... And it's pretty obvious too I think that opening a restaurant selling food from overseas is almost always cultural exchange... I don't really think you can open a restaurant without a solid understanding of the food you're making (quite unlike putting on a headdress and getting hammered on Halloween)... Somewhere in between there's a line, perhaps, but I have absolutely no idea where it is. White people with dreads is in there somewhere, no one seems to agree on it, personally I think it's pretty far removed from its origins and is basically a white hippy thing in it's own right, regardless of how it began, but I know a lot of people disagree.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago (2 children)

As a mexican, I dont mind people dressing as mexican for carneval, or making variations of mexican food, as long as they aren't anti mexican, and I think that's where the line is drawn. A culture dont get to "steal" other culture things and also not want them living with them.

[–] BluesF@feddit.uk 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's reasonable. I suppose there's something distinct in the "costume" based on how significant the cultural garb is. I don't know much about mexican culture so correct me if I'm wrong, but is the stereotypical sombrero/poncho combination more a product of convenience and weather than culture? Contrasting with the Native American headdress or Hindu bindi which are culturally significant in (I believe) a different way.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I do agree that the poncho and sombrero are not really a mexican cultural thing (although the shape and colors make it specific to mexico on top of drawing a (mexican) mustache). Like I said, I dont mind it, just don't be anti mexican, and this applies to other cultures too.

[–] imalemmy@iusearchlinux.fyi 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's obvious to me that wearing someone's culture as a costume is fucked up

Why is it fucked up?

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[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I've heard people claim cultural appropriation over this or that, but I'm not convinced it's a real thing, and not just people being offended on behalf of someone else.

That's not to say that cultures don't get appropriated, but is that a bad thing? White people rocking dreadlocks, cool. Black people sporting a kimono, nice. Asian people with Klan robes, what.

We live in a culturally interconnected global community now, no group has ownership over aesthetics.

[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Cultural Appropriation is real, but it usually refers to entire nations or massive artists or corporations adopting a caricature of smaller cultures, to the extent that people start associating it with that nation or artist rather than the culture. An example here is Picasso using African imagery, or pop stars copying underground music genres and effectively killing them off.

The problem is that people use it to talk about regular people starting a Sushi restaurant or whatever. They do not have the power to do this sort of thing.

[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Fair enough. It reminds me of the whole conversation about critical race theory. It isn't what most people think it is, and is reserved for discussions regarding much more nuanced understandings.

I still think it's hard to distinguish whether something is, or isn't cultural appropriation. Where is the line between inspiration and a knock-off?

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[–] LWD@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)
[–] Kanzar@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

From what I've heard, plenty of black folks are mad about white people with dreadlocks because black people have been penalised for having locs for so long and along comes the dominant culture saying "actually that's cool and we're gonna make it cool, but you still look like shit".

Same with the fox eye trend that non Asians did for a bit, when Asian kids were forever bullied for having eyes like that.

Cultural sharing? Excellent. Cultural appropriation where one culture is plundered for anything of value and that culture is also denied acceptance for having those same characteristics? Not so good.

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[–] superfes@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why is the knife upside down?

...

[–] zero_gravitas@aussie.zone 26 points 11 months ago

Because it's an Australian knife, duh 🙃

[–] RavenFellBlade@startrek.website 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sounds delightful! Sounds like we need some Australian Sushi in my neck of the woods!

[–] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Throw some wasabi on the barbie

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Wait till they hear about mexican sushi

[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 4 points 11 months ago

What a crock ;)

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