this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 141 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Because the 'numbers' that neoliberals have decided are the indicators of a "good" economy mean almost nothing to, in all likely hood, 95% of Americans.

Measuring the right thing leads to inconvenient conclusions (age till retirement, income at retirement, income independence, buying power, home ownership, business ownership, union membership, etc.)

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 59 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Bloody well hate the neoliberals. One was arguing with me on reddit that because people in Kenya are better off, compared to the 80s, I should stop complaining.

Like ok I am happy for the people of Kenya. I got nothing against them. So yeah good job. Now can my healthcare costs please go down? Because I am pretty confident that they can and the people of Kenya can also be doing well. One really doesn't impact the other that much.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 25 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, you see, because TVs have gotten consistently cheaper (they're like the only thing to have done so), everything's working!

[–] ayaya@lemdro.id 24 points 11 months ago

And the main reason they're cheaper is because all of them are data harvesting machines. What a fun world where even your habits are a commodity!

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[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 117 points 11 months ago (3 children)

... because my purchasing power is much lower than two years ago and my wages aren't remotely keeping up with profiteering inflation? Because I have to be very careful around Christmas to not overspend and I get to explain to the kids why there's only a few presents under the tree? They'll be okay with it, but as a person who has children to take care of it, it's crushing to go backwards year to year in what you're able to provide? Because a 3/4 full shopping cart today (not much meat) was $179 today? And we have a fixed rate mortgage! I can't envision the pressures people who are renting or trying to buy a home right now are going through. Anyone saying "it's all good out there!" can get fucked.

[–] TheDubz87@lemmy.world 45 points 11 months ago (4 children)

No kids to take care of, but my fridge just went out today. This spoiled most of the food in the fridge as I can't pick up a new one until tomorrow, and the of a new fridge and restocking my fridge pretty much cancels Xmas gifts for the family. I feel bad every year because they get my wife and I all kinds of cool stuff and it seems like every year I'm stuck telling them, "Maybe I'll be less broke next year" Not quite the same, I know, but it still makes me feel aweful...

Meanwhile the owner of my company just bought a 5th wheel camper trailer and hitch for his truck in June because he felt like going camping, and is having a 6 bedroom house built for his son on his ranch because his sons wife is having a baby.

This world is fucked for the working class truly.

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 12 points 11 months ago

If it isn't too late. Buy an absolute fuck ton of ice. It'll keep the food cold enough.

[–] Kage520@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This isn't probably what you want to hear right now, but I've been much happier giving homemade gifts to family and friends. I found a couple of things people really enjoy that I make and they all look forward to it every year. For me, it's pork jerky. That might not work for you because you need a dehydrator but I can post the recipe if you want. It's a lot of work so no one ever makes it, but when they receive it for Christmas they know I put a lot of time and love in and I really think that's what Christmas should be about. It's really cheap... Mostly two or three large pork loins covers my entire Christmas list.

Other family members have started to do the same. My brother makes really good homemade caramel popcorn. My sister made some rum infusion to give out. Another sister even one time even made Dominoes somehow with resin.

If you are able to find time and energy to spread your love for your family and friends Christmas is a lot of fun.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I can't believe how expensive thanksgiving shopping was this year. I hit nearly 200 dollars.

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[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Dang, I was just thinking about how my mom got a raise years ago when I was still a kid and it practically changed our life. All of a sudden we were eating out more. All of a sudden we had nicer things. All of a sudden my mom wasn't stressed anymore.

It's sad to see how people are now experiencing the opposite of that. It's sad they're experiencing that when, in absolute terms, we are more productive than ever.

Greed really is the worst thing we face as a species in the modern age. It's a shame so many people are gung-ho about supporting it.

The disparity in wealth needs to shrink instead of grow. Otherwise, these problems will only get worse over time.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 95 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I feel like I have been seeing the same article once a month since 2007.

A. Unemployment numbers are basically a lie at this point. The only number that comes even close to representating the situation is the workforce participation rate. Question: what percent of people are employed? Answer: what percent of people are employed. It is simple as that. If you look at pretty much every month the US hits a new low. Over a third of the adult population did not earn $20 dollars last week. There was a slight trending down right before 2007 crash but not significant. A deep dive into the numbers shows that this is not the result of retirement, it is the result of prime working age males dropping out.

B. Who cares if inflation is low at this moment? That is like arguing that everything is fine the previous 5 minutes when a car crash happened 6 minutes ago.

Peices of garbage keep telling us that everything is fine when it fucking isnt

[–] AlecSadler@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I really like that car crash analogy or whatever you want to call it. It isn't like sudden positive changes in inflation or job numbers magically fixes QOL for people overnight. It can take weeks...months, maybe even years (maybe even never?)

[–] Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 26 points 11 months ago

This is it exactly. Positive changes in inflation mean prices aren't going up as fast. They're still going up. They're never going to go down because businesses don't charge less when the alternative is making more money. They only ever charge more with inflation.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 93 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Because it's a bullshit narrative. Cost of living keeps going up. But inflation doesn't count rent, groceries, or gas.

[–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

For what it's worth gas has come down quite a bit the last few weeks.

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[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Rent is going to go up as long as it's able.

As soon as people have more money to spend, landlords increase rent.

Renting is one of the biggest scams this generation has convinced itself into falling for.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago (61 children)

I wasn't able to afford to buy a house until I was over 50 years old, it took a global pandemic, a complete shutdown of the economy, and working from home for multiple years to bank the cash to make it happen.

People don't rent because they CHOOSE to.

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[–] TheControlled@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago (4 children)

This generation? Fucking Romans were complaining about high rent for shitty apartments over 2000 years ago. Don't be a dumbass.

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[–] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

slaps forehead wait I can just buy a house? What a solution!! So easy!

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[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 80 points 11 months ago

Corporate profits ≠ my wallet

[–] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 70 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Because those two metrics are meaningless for the average person.

Inflation is trending down... After it skyrocketed and is still way above affordable ranges.

Employment rates are high... But those jobs don't pay living wages.

Go check how much savings the average American has, check what an average doctor's visit costs, and then maybe you'll understand the gloom.

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[–] irotsoma@lemmy.world 65 points 11 months ago (63 children)

No one is asking for deflation. They're asking for wages that don't decrease every year due to inflation and companies not giving raises or giving raises so small that it's still a pay decrease since it's not keeping up with inflation.

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[–] hark@lemmy.world 53 points 11 months ago (3 children)

"Why Americans feel gloomy about the economy despite paying a lot more for things than the official inflation numbers claim and having a wage that isn't rising as high as official numbers claim"

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 48 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Because interest rates are insane trapping people in homes they no longer want but can't afford to leave?

Speaking of... My car got totalled at the end of October, shopping for a new one, I saw interest rates for me between 7 and 8%, for other folks, I saw one as high as 12.25%(!) On a CAR LOAN.

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[–] fender_symphonic584@lemmy.world 48 points 11 months ago (9 children)

"falling inflation" means prices are still rising...the rate of increase is what has decreased. What we need is negative inflation...or said differently, price decrease.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

You don't actually want that. It encourages people to "invest" by sticking hard cash in a mattress. It rewards people for doing absolutely nothing but taking money out of the economy.

Ideal (if we're keeping a monetary exchange society, anyway) is low (<3%), predictable inflation combined with wages increasing in proportion to productivity. We had a period of relatively low inflation followed by a giant spike, plus wage gains that are nowhere near matching productivity gains over the last 50 years, and that's where things hurt. Capitalism doesn't seem capable of this, however, as it's always chasing the next hype cycle that leads to these spikes and lulls.

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[–] HerrBeter@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (11 children)

Deflation means stagnation or crash in economic terms

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[–] Bonskreeskreeskree@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (9 children)

What you are describing is deflation and it's only happened twice during the history of the United States. It is also generally looked at as a bad thing.

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[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 44 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I can't remember the last time people felt good about the economy.

[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I can... but I was born in the 70s

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[–] finkrat@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that when the economy restabilizes, that doesn't mean the cost of consumer goods go down or wages go up, it just means the billionaires running the show aren't losing millions

[–] calypsopub@lemmy.world 37 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My son graduated with a degree in economics in 2020 and still hasn't found a job. He's not counted in the unemployment numbers because he hasn't filed for benefits. We need to look at labor participation as well as underemployment instead of the useless stats being used in this article. Real wages have tanked. People are running up debt just to buy groceries. It's desperate out there.

[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

He’s not counted in the unemployment numbers because he hasn’t filed for benefits.

That's untrue. From the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics:

In the Current Population Survey, people are classified as unemployed if they meet all of the following criteria:

  • They were not employed during the survey reference week.
  • They were available for work during the survey reference week, except for temporary illness.
  • They made at least one specific, active effort to find a job during the 4-week period ending with the survey reference week (see active job search methods) OR they were temporarily laid off and expecting to be recalled to their job.

There are other statistics measuring unemployment claims, but when you hear, "the unemployment rate for Oct 2023 is 3.9%", that is unrelated to benefits.

[–] lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I really wish news outlets would stop pretending this is some big mystery. Shit is too expensive.

[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago

IMO it's the inverse, we don't make enough. The 1% have been keeping wages stagnant. We can't stop the price of goods from going up, but we can increase pay from it sharing the bottom line. As soon as interest rates re-appeared, all the free money that was sitting around for the taking disappeared. Sooner than later, we'll be paying micro-transactions for crap that was previously able to be paid for by selling us ads. But that money isn't coming back to us.

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

  • Upton Sinclair, 1934
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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Someone feel free to explain these two simultaneous headlines-

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago

The unemployment is low because people have a gun to their head. Inflation is falling, but it's not zero, therefore everything is still getting more expensive.

eCoNoMiCs.

[–] rayyy@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago

"most prices are high and still rising" Pretty obvious that corporations are price gouging to get their friendly fascist lifetime dictator back in power.

[–] IamRoot@sh.itjust.works 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

$4 for a bag of potato chips.

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[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 14 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Oh boy inflation is falling.

Unless it's greedy C-level execs falling out of windows there won't be a change in the cost. The issue is greed, inflation was just the scapegoat.

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