I voted for the Greens in Germany, celebrated the first center-left government since my childhood, and now they're tightening the thumbscrews on immigrants and subsidizing energy for large corporations.
this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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"tightening", by reducing requirements for getting the German passport?
You must be very young and/or naive, if you had lived through the Schröder/Fischer governments (or had informed yourself about them) you'd have known that neither the SPD nor the Greens are in any way left leaning.
or in case of the SPD you just had to look at most of the Merkel governments
That, too, but if you point at those, people will argue that the SPD couldn't be more social due to being caught as the smaller partner in a coalition with the CDU.
If you really want to point out the full scale of antisocial policy done by SPD and Greens, you have to point at the governments Schröder/Fischer, because for those, there is no CDU fig leaf to hide behind. And there is plenty to find there, a few highlights for those who don't want to be bothered with looking it up:
- "liberalisation" of the labour market (allowing temporary employment schemes that spawned an entire, previously illegal low wages sector and reduced the influence of unions)
- "reforms" of the social security system with severe cutbacks to unemployment benefits, forcing lots of people into the newly created low wage sector. On top of that, subsidies to the low wage sector through the employment office (if your employer doesn't pay you enough to make a living, you can't quit your job without losing access to benefits, but you're allowed to claim extra money from the employment office)
- "reforms" of the pension system, which reduced the pension levels, increased the pension age, and introduced subsidies to private pension schemes provided by insurance companies, which by now all have been identified as scams where you pay way more than you get out.
- "liberalisation" of the financial sector, which made previously illegal hedge funds legal, which then promptly created a bunch of financial and subsequent economic crises with their unhinged speculation.
neither the SPD nor the Greens are in any way left leaning
Sad but true.
How the fuck is the green party not left leaning? What kind of no true scotsman shit is this?
They're just a pro gas party no?
You're in the wrong countries democratic system buddy...
Anti-immigration positions: 5 minutes to explain.
Pro-immigration positions: 45 minutes to explain.
Population of the world: Fucking huge.
Not sure how to solve this one.
Something something representative democracy, where politicians have a duty to deal with the complexities, in order to actually represent the peoples interests and not just the populist ones.
How do you do that when everything has to be in short slogans or people will have forgotten it by the time you are done talking?
Inalienable human rights. Bam, 2 seconds.
Thing is, those who are against immigration are much more motivated. This is generally how politics goes, that a motivated minority can eventually get their way against a less-interested majority. As great as it is, that was largely what happened in the other direction with issues such as gay marriage.
For those who are anti-immigration this is often the only topic they care about, or they care much more about this than anything else. On the other hand, those who are pro-immigration are largely either mildly-favorable towards it or they care much more about other issues.
Personally I think that left-leaning parties in Europe basically have two options currently:
-Fight against anti-immigration stances and then lose power.
-Focus on other topics while getting tougher on immigration.
It might not be the smartest move to be anti-immigration, but unfortunately in a democracy feelings are usually more important than facts and one of the biggest issues with the left is not being able to accept that.----
Calling it an immigration debate is a symptom itself, right? We're usually not talking about people coming here to study and to work, which would be immigration. Instead the debate is about asylum for refugees, whether refugees get individual human rights or if they can be treated in bulk with imposed limits, where they can be sent and who has to deal with them, who builds walls, whether they can be drowned in the mediterranean or if it's legitimate to shoot them at the borders, whether activists who rescue them from drowning are criminals.
Stop framing it as immigration, which is a bit in each country's purview to organize or not, and can indeed be debated. Here we're talking about human rights for human beings who are in a desperate situation and deserve every help they need and if we can't grant them that then we have failed our shared values, and our economic system and our political system are apparently unsuited for humanity and should be abolished. Refugees are welcome or you are an asshole and there cannot be any discussion about this, at all, in a modern democracy with human rights.
I kinda wanna live in Europe though, because my country sucks. Now I'm gonna get hate from everyone.
And if you absolutely hate me and hate this statement, there's this downvote button that you can press. I feel like getting shamed today.