this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
64 points (98.5% liked)

Ask Science

8621 readers
1 users here now

Ask a science question, get a science answer.


Community Rules


Rule 1: Be respectful and inclusive.Treat others with respect, and maintain a positive atmosphere.


Rule 2: No harassment, hate speech, bigotry, or trolling.Avoid any form of harassment, hate speech, bigotry, or offensive behavior.


Rule 3: Engage in constructive discussions.Contribute to meaningful and constructive discussions that enhance scientific understanding.


Rule 4: No AI-generated answers.Strictly prohibit the use of AI-generated answers. Providing answers generated by AI systems is not allowed and may result in a ban.


Rule 5: Follow guidelines and moderators' instructions.Adhere to community guidelines and comply with instructions given by moderators.


Rule 6: Use appropriate language and tone.Communicate using suitable language and maintain a professional and respectful tone.


Rule 7: Report violations.Report any violations of the community rules to the moderators for appropriate action.


Rule 8: Foster a continuous learning environment.Encourage a continuous learning environment where members can share knowledge and engage in scientific discussions.


Rule 9: Source required for answers.Provide credible sources for answers. Failure to include a source may result in the removal of the answer to ensure information reliability.


By adhering to these rules, we create a welcoming and informative environment where science-related questions receive accurate and credible answers. Thank you for your cooperation in making the Ask Science community a valuable resource for scientific knowledge.

We retain the discretion to modify the rules as we deem necessary.


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

In nuclear chemistry elements beyond Plutonium do not occur in nature and are synthesized artificially. Is it a similar case for Higgs boson too?

If so, how does it give mass to particles if it doesn't exist? Did scientists create Higgs at LHC in 2011 just to make sure our universe exists through some kind of circular causation?

I'm obviously not understanding this properly. Please dispel my misunderstandings with reasonable explanations!

all 20 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The way I understand it is that it’s a field just as photons are an excitation of the electromagnetic field.

Except that the Higgs interacts with some particles giving them “mass” where they otherwise wouldn’t.

So it “exists” in the sense that there is an all pervasive field that is interacting with other fields/particles.

PBS space time is a great channel for things like this

https://youtu.be/G0Q4UAiKacw

And here’s an easier intro to the topic

https://youtu.be/kixAljyfdqU

[–] Deebster@programming.dev 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The Higgs boson isn't an atom like plutonium, it's "further down". I think of it in levels:

  • atoms, which are made up of
  • electrons “orbiting” the nucleus, the nucleus being made up of protons and neutrons. In turn, protons and neutrons are made up of
  • quarks

Quarks are a kind of elementary particle called fermions, which are at the same level as bosons (and electrons). Down here it's all weird and quantum but in an oversimplified nutshell, it's not so much that they physically exist as that in the maths* we can treat them as existing which makes it easier to think about.

* of the physics models we use

I'm a computer scientist, not a real scientist, so I stand ready to be corrected by those more knowledgable.

edit: @SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world is more knowledgable and helped me fix this up a bit.

[–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The fermions are particles with mass, an electron is already a fundamental fermion and not made up of quarks like protons and neutrons. The fundamental bosons (as far as I know) are particles that "handle" the interactions between other particles for instance gluons enable the strong force, while W and Z Bosons enable the weak force.

I believe the fundamental Higgs boson does occur in nature but likely immediately decays. (if I'm wrong I'd love to know how it actually enables certain interactions in nature)

Also I'm not studying quantum physics so I wouldn't be surprised if someone needs to correct me. :)

Edit: clarified when fundamental fermions/bosons were meant.

[–] rosss@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Small clarification - the fundamental bosons are the ones that handle particle interactions, whilst fundamental fermions make up matter.

It is however possible to have atoms that are fermions or bosons depending on the total number (even or odd) particles that make them up.

[–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Yup, should've clarified that I meant fundamental bosons, as any particle with integer spin is considered bosonic, while particles with half integer spin are fermionic, fundamental bosons alone still can't make up matter though and protons/neutrons are fermionic.

[–] Deebster@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's true... kinda makes a mess of my simple model 😅

I'll edit in your correction, thanks.

The higgs particle itself isn't important, it's the higgs field that makes the world go 'round. The way I understand it, is the field permeates all of space and time (like all other fields) and the particle appears at places of high disruptions in the field, like what the LHC created.

Now, I'm no PhD, so take this with heaps of salt.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Particles are just a way of looking at excited quantum fields. The Higgs field is always everywhere, giving things mass.

Honestly, depending on interpretation of quantum mechanics, you don't need to acknowledge particles exist at all. It could all be fields becoming ever more entangled and wrinkled.

[–] Hedup@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Photons are also bosons, right? Why do we need all the huge energy particle smashing experiment at LHC, while we can get any energy photons everywhere? What's the difference?

Its better to not think of it as something we created in a lab. Higgs plays a part in making nature do what it does.

If you want to learn more about the Higgs Mechanism, check out this video from PBS Space Time. You might also find some good info in the comments as well.

Here is a space article.

[–] Brokkr@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Sorry, can't answer your question. Quick correction though, uranium is the highest atomic number that occurs nationally.

Edit: so I'm wrong about this. In school we learned that it was uranium and that's also what it said when I checked sources, but not enough. Apologies.

[–] morphballganon@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

The Oklo natural nuclear reactor has naturally occurring plutonium and neptunium