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Did anyone else dislike TOS in their youth but came around to it when they got older? (startrek.website)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by startrekexplained@startrek.website to c/startrek@startrek.website
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I was born in 1989, so I grew up with the TNG era and ENT, and I always dismissed TOS as a kid as the cheesy 60s original version that TNG remade and left in the dust. It wasn't until high school that I actually sat down and watched TOS and fell in love with it. I even now wonder if Kirk is better than Picard, it's a debate I have with myself often. Was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience with TOS?

I still think TNG is better, but TOS is great in its own right.

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[–] benjamin@artemis.camp 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I was the same way. I happened to turn on Pluto a while back, and TNG was on. I remembered seeing it as a kid and not being a fan, but I found myself watching every episode that came on.

I got so wrapped up in it that I got Paramount+ just to watch every season, then start on all the others I’ve missed.

IMHO, Picard is a better captain than Kirk (I expect downvotes for this).

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Picard is a better captain for the starfleet of his age, kirk was a better captain for his younger federation.

Picard was a diplomat and mediator looking for the best way to keep the peace. Kirk was a sheriff in the wild west, and in fact westerns were a large influence on tos trek.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah I agree Picard is overall still a better captain, but some qualities of Kirk I like more, like how he is more willing to interfere to overthrow the local false god or dictator.

[–] Vordus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Folks tend to say that Kirk is too much of a cowboy, but that's not really who he is. He's very much invested in the rules and hierarchy of Starfleet, but he's also driven by a sense of justice.

He's not a cowboy, he's the Sheriff.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The pop culture image of Kirk is not the same as the actual Kirk. I was surprised how much Kirk is a good Starfleet captain.

[–] kd637_mi@leminal.space 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is a big issue. I've said it before, but so many people think they know what Kirk and TOS are, and are wrong about it. It isn't pure ham and Kirk sleeping with the galaxy. It's tense, it's deep, it's ahead of its time and ahead of a lot of current shows as well. The chemistry between Kirk, Spock and Bones really shines, and there is a real sense of the unknown. Remember that the reruns of TOS are what drove demand for TNG in the first place.

This isn't to say that people aren't allowed to not like TOS, of course some people won't. I just think people and especially trek fans do themselves a disservice by not giving it a good go.

Standard TOS defence rant over.

[–] thejohnr@universeodon.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@kd637_mi @startrekexplained
TOS has a channel on Pluto TV. I watch it most every evening. Shore Leave last night. Metamorphosis tonight. It runs 24/7 but I just watch 1 a day.

[–] kd637_mi@leminal.space 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm in Aus but I have used a VPN to check out Pluto, I saw that there were a couple of Star Trek channels. Didn't realise one was TOS, that's awesome.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago

I live in the US and Pluto TV is a must here if you like playing TV shows in the background while studying or doing work :P

[–] latca@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’ll have to go with Picard on that one too it is called the PRIME directive for a reason.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago

Picard is def the better one overall, but one day Ill do a ranking on qualities and say which one is better at which

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

TNG Picard was a better captain, I can agree.

Not sure I can say that about movie Picard, and would definitely disagree that Picard in Picard was better than Kirk in TOS or the movies.

I’m from an older generation that saw TOS and loved it long before TNG existed. Taking the long view, I think it’s great that the shows are demonstrating that different kinds of leadership work, and some work better in central contexts than others. SNW seems to be making that point directly, but it’s also not afraid to laugh at itself and ask us to join in.

In the 90s, I became a huge TNG fan, loved its more serious tone, idolized Picard as an leader, and found TOS’ campiness hard to take. So I stopped watching TOS other than the movies that were still coming.

Another 30 years on, TNGs flaws (and Picard’s) are more evident to me. At this distance, TOS is such an artifact of its time that I can just accept and enjoy it again for what it is.

But in the 90s, there were other, vocal, OG TOS fans who never got that Star Trek feeling from TNG. They wanted more adventure, but I suspect that some also wanted more of the cheekiness and cheesiness that TOS delivered with a straight face. I felt at the time that both Voyager and Enterprise were to some extent designed to bring them back to the television side of the franchise, but in hindsight were also very much a reflection of the era in which they were made.

Its really good to hear from 90s Trek fans who are willing to give TOS and new shows like SNW and Lower Decks a genuine try and appreciate them for what they are.

Now, I hope you and OP will give TAS a try. There’s some great stuff in there!

[–] const_void@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Strange new worlds is a blast as is lower decks. I just wish there were more episodes!

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago

I wish SNW would have 20 episodes per season

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One of these days Ill watch TAS and Lower Decks, maybe even soon because ive rewatched TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT so many times i need something new.

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

TAS is imperfect, and for some the Filmation animation is hard to get past. It does however have some great episodes, and several were written by TOS writers. I can’t imagine skipping it.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I skipped it because its animated i admit. Silly reason I know

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, the silver lining is that you have some content with the original cast yet to see.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago

Exactly. I will watch it this weekend

[–] riot@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, this is making me reconsider if I should give TOS a chance one day. Maybe once I've caught up completely on everything else, I'll sit down and give it a shot.

[–] startrekexplained@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd recommend it if you can get past the 60s special effects

[–] RojaBunny@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I honestly think the 60s special effects are one of my favorite aspects about TOS. They're silly and corny and the suspension of disbelief is nonexistent but it wouldn't be the same without them. That, and also the dramatic lighting in the closeups and the extravagant eye makeup on literally everyone lol.

[–] DiogenesTheIdealist@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago

I didn’t dislike TOS when I was a kid (watched sporadic re-runs growing up in the 90s), but I am doing a full re-watch now and I definitely appreciate it more. It’s kind of amazing how it often manages to be goofy and extremely deep at the same time. Like the actors have a way of lending urgency and seriousness to what seem on the surface to be silly interactions.

[–] WhoRoger@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I respect it more, but I still can't get into it. I find that the feeling they were going for - wild west in space - just doesn't gel at all with the story of a futuristic utopian Federation and (essentially) a milliary grade ship with professional personel.

There are episodes where it's one or the other, and not the combination of both, that work the best.

I think the TNG era managed to get away from this weird sense very well while still paying homage. But on ENT it shows how trying to follow in those footsteps can give weird results. All the criticism ENT has gotten is really the result of trying to make sense of TOS.

Ironically, VOY had the most opportunity to run with the wild west theme, and I guess they couldn't figure it out either. Maybe SNW has, from what I've heard.

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was the opposite. TOS was my favorite as a kid. I imagine the bright colors and simpler plots ("fight the gorn") Probably helped a lot.

[–] Nmyownworld@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago

As a child, TOS' space exploration and the Federation's society engaged me.

[–] GoodAaron@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago

I didn’t dislike it, but I think a lot of it went over my head in a way that TNG did not, for whatever reason.

I tacitly understood TOS had a different vibe and aesthetic — but I was also raised on Nick at Nite, so television from the 1950s and 60s felt like comfort food to me.

Now, I love it for many reasons.

[–] kd637_mi@leminal.space 1 points 1 year ago

I'm around your age and TOS is my favourite series, although SNW is getting close from what I've seen so far. Glad to see people giving it a watch.

Also Kirk>Picard no question.