Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
!feminism@beehaw.org
!askmen@lemmy.world
!mensmentalhealth@lemmy.world
Aspiring to be some vague archetypal construct of what a man is seems silly to me. I think people should aspire to have certain values and scruples. Most valuable men I've met were defined by their behavior and actions, rather than image and projection.
See, this is what I thought initially: "I'm a man" is an indirect expression of values. And in more thoughtful men, traditional or otherwise, they may be able to articulate their values. So, I think this is probably the best answer.
But then there's the obvious question of why those values embody being a man only. Why can't women value the same thing and have the same type of expression? This part of the traditional manliness-as-values makes absolutely no sense to me. It seems unnecessarily restrictive.
Traditional gender roles are useful until they're no longer useful, as a society changes. I think western culture is going through a number of identity crises as a result of changes to various status quo, and the idea of "manliness" has become confusing for many. And unfortunately, the western world isn't great at suggesting or encouraging healthy alternatives or the means to individually arrive at them. We instead wage culture wars, point fingers, and do disservice to those suffering in silent confusion.
This is all clearly just my opinion from my armchair, and I respect and welcome contrasting points of view.
They identify as a man because gender is defined externally to the individual. They were born, the doctor saw a penis, said, "it's a boy" and those around them reinforced male norms onto them: parents tend to cuddle boys less than girls; enforce stoic principles (men don't cry); encourage rougher, more violent play; and encourage more independence. There's plenty of references for these points so I didn't feel the need to provide any.
Most people don't challenge their identity if they don't need to and changing parts of your identity can be traumatic (ask queer person what coming out was like for them). The crisis of masculinity, as with any cultural crisis, is just a conservative, reaction to something that challenges them.
Gender is cultural and temporal so changes all the time; high heeled shoes used to be worn by rich Persian men, pink was the color that boys wore because pink was thought to be a watered down red, the color of the British army that they would, of course, eventually join. The Male Breadwinner model is an interesting way to frame the idea that the man is provider for the family. Prior to the Industrial Revolution the whole family provided.
Yeah we have a crisis of masculinity because the patriarchy has decided that manhood is important, but then also anyone with any logical ability notices that gender is a social construct. So men who feel like they benefit from patriarchy and want it to continue must wage a war. Against women and feminists. Against anyone queer. Against any man who doesn't tow the line that a penis and a sports pendant on the wall of the man cave are like the most important things to ever happen.
I don't know how to be anything else but myself and I'm not even really good at that. But to be fair, my gender never meant much to me, so the question why be a man, never crossed my mind.