this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I understand that Labour has to compensate for the chain of allegations of anti-semitism in the past, but I am not sure if that's the best take.

[–] DoneItDuncan@feddit.uk 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly, I think an apology will be on the way. I think he tried to "soundbite" himself through an interview without really listening to the question or thinking about how it sounded.

[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

That makes sense. Probably tries to stick closely to the prepared phrases, and realized too late what he replied that to.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

He said everything within the remit of international law... It was right there in the video. He didn't say no but he also didn't answer the question posed.

Feels like a nothing burger. Simon Coveney said literally the same thing and it was taken the opposite way: https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/israel-must-abide-by-international-law-in-gaza-siege-simon-coveney-says-as-fine-gael-to-send-letter-of-condolence-to-israeli-embassy/ar-AA1i3I8z

ETA: I'm not a big fan of Starmer at the best of times and find most of his takes to be as milquetoast as he can possibly make them, which is why it seemed unlikely he was actually taking this stance.

[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The difference here is that Starmer was directly asked if shutting off water and all supplies to Gaza is okay, he daid that it was Israel's right to do so.

He followed up with the international law, but he did say in no uncertain words that starving all people of Gaza is Israel's right.

He also repeated himself, I think he wanted to make very sure that he positioned himself as pro Israel, because of the stigma of anti semitism in the Labour party.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He said they are within their right to do that which is within the remit of international laws. He added that part about international law after the host added seiging and resource deprivation to a list of potential rights of Israel.

Agree with you on the last part, he's being extremely careful about the positioning for exactly that reason.

[–] DoneItDuncan@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

At some point though, surely humanity and justice have to take precedence over politicking - I don't think the need to tiptoe around issues like that is a good enough reason for excusing the collective punishment of 2 million people.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I'm not vouching for his whole worldview on this, just pointing out that he didn't say the sieging and resource denial is okay.

[–] DoneItDuncan@feddit.uk 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think he kinda did tbh.

I think the best you can say he didn't do it on purpose. He clearly had a soundbite ('Isreal has a right to defend itself within international law'), but maybe he didn't actually listen to the question before using it?

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was certainly a sound bite. But he only clarified "within international law" after the line of questioning became about the siege and resource denial, so he did actively change/update the sound bite to address that specific thing.

He did somewhat seem on auto pilot with it after hearing the question, so I could believe he might choose to phrase it less poorly given a second chance, but It's pretty presumptuous.

[–] DoneItDuncan@feddit.uk 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's the sort of thing he could clarify in an apology I think.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He should apologize for not condoning the siege? I don't think that would be a politically savvy choice.

[–] DoneItDuncan@feddit.uk 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

... unintentionally endorsing collective punishment.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Which part was the endorsement?

[–] peg@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Not when you're a Blairite. Nothing better than war and dead Muslims.

[–] RedGee@feddit.uk -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There was no anti semisism. If supporting pro Palestine under JC is anti-semitism?

Starmer will always be a traitor to the Labour party in my eyes. And Labour in it's present form are no different than the Conservatives. Funded in part by the same people. This is why he is pro Israel. Ching Ching.

[–] matt@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

While this is true, politics is unfortunately about feelings and optics, not actual facts.

People believe that Labour is antisemitic, and therefore that impression is going to stick with people even if it might wholly be false.

I'm not a fan of Starmer either but politics is a stupid game and I'm not so sure a different response would be a good idea to the public, as much as he should have said literally anything else.

[–] lemonflavoured@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He said everything within the remit of international law…

Which has the slight issue that "withholding power and water" is (arguably) not legal under international law.

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago

No argument; civilians must be protected and power and water is absolute necessity for civilians.

It’s a war crime.

What Hamas did was absolutely horrid. What Israel is doing is absolutely horrid. No good people, only victims.