this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023

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[RANT] Still miserable and unemployed (lemmy.sdf.org)

submitted 1 year ago by PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org to c/autism@lemmy.world

15 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I was actually going to write a fresh post, but then I realized that a lot hasn't changed since the last time I posted here. Here's the old post if you're interested.

Short version: I cannot find employment at all in my field (electrical engineering). It's not "we're not hiring", it's "we're not hiring you." I need to pay bills. I am physically and emotionally exhausted from being so close to poverty for so long.

What has changed:

I have been through about 10 interviews. Furthest I've gotten in one company's hiring process is to 2nd interview. Rather than 30 applications, I have filled out over 150 applications, but I've honestly lost track. No offers. I have exhausted all the entry-level engineering opportunities my college's job board has to offer. I literally have to wait for new jobs to be posted because I applied for everything. The problem is that I don't have experience. My resumé is fine (probably) as it gets me interviews, but I simply do not have engineering experience. I am fully convinced that no engineering firm will hire me in my current state.
I ran out of meds about a month ago, so I feel a lot more irritable. My parents have offered to pay for a psych appointment and meds, but like...once. I will take it, but I'm waiting until I know for sure I can get more meds by the time I run out.
To my absolute shock, I was accepted to pursue a master's degree at my alma mater, and the Financial Aid department has assured me that I qualify for financial aid. So at least I'm allowed to...go into further debt for further education. Yay.

Now if capitalism [1] were not an issue, I would immediately pounce at the opportunity to do a masters degree. I enjoy learning and if I thought I could choose, I would go into research. However, I gotta pay the rent (even and especially if I live with my parents), I gotta eat, and I gotta pay back the loans. Even if I go with the degree, I have to make money to pay the rent while I'm in school.

My degree is/would be in electrical engineering. I always told myself I'd be able to get a job after all this, I always told myself I picked a "safe" major. But I can't do this anymore. I can't be constantly living on the edge of poverty like this. And the fucking interviewers are starting to ask about the gap in my work history since I fucking graduated. HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO GET EXPERIENCE IF YOU STUPID FUCKS WON'T LET ME GET EXPERIENCE?!?!? I wish I never went back to fucking school and I fucking hate my life.

[1] Not looking to proselytize or debate politics, but I'm not sure how else to explain to people what economic impulses force me and most other humans to act against our interests. If it bothers you, replace "capitalism" with whatever you think is responsible for making ordinary people act against their economic interests.

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[–] isles@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't have anything to add other than... sorry bud 😢 I get the impression that you don't have much support in your life.

Since you've identified that interviewers aren't clicking with you, what steps have you taken to improve your interview skills?

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I have a private GitHub repo with notes and scripts for all phone or video calls I've made since August when I thought to put it into repo. Everytime I take a call, I write down what topics I discussed, what questions were asked, and how I answered. Each call gets a list of scripts, possible answers, and information about the position, company, and interviewer. After the interview, I rewrite answers to new questions, save everything, and git push origin main. Next time I make a call, I just need to pull the repo, run a helper script that sets up the next call, and repeat. Basically, it's been an iterative process of learning what works and what doesn't. It's great because I can show up on any PC with git and pull my notes and go.

The text files are in front of my face for all calls and interviews.

I also have a GitHub repo for every copy of my resumé.

My interviewing is probably okay, and if it isn't I still think I've found a process that converges towards success. Still, I am autistic, and there are probably ways I "weird out" interviewers that I can't detect yet. Furthermore, not having medication has made it a lot harder not to be visibly irritated by "HR questions". For example, I had an interviewer ask me this week "what have you been working on since you graduated" and I kinda blurted out "looking for work" in a really exasperated tone. I used to be able to "massage" questions like that even a few weeks ago, at least not bark at them.

I think the issue is that I don't have the experience that companies are looking for, i.e. internships. But also, I just need a break, and more generally I need to feel safe.

[–] aphlamingphoenix@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know it's not your field and not what you wanted for a career, but if you're comfortable with git and writing scripts, you probably have the skills to get an entry level devops job somewhere. I have a relative with a mechanical engineering degree, and she's working as a data analyst right now for this exact reason. It's not mechanical engineering but it's a job and it's pretty kushy all things considered.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've applied for at least 10 devops/software development jobs. No response from any of them. Problem is, my school generates IT and CS graduates who are actually trained to use these tools. I'm just a hobbyist. I just know enough git to use it. Same with bash.

Because tbh I really enjoy programming; I've begun to program audio plugins as a hobby, so a software developer job would be great for me.

Actually one of the reasons I picked EE as a major was deliberately because if engineering didn't work out, I thought I'd be able to bail into a nearby industry. However, it seems like employers are only interested in employees with the correct degree.

[–] isles@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

But also, I just need a break, and more generally I need to feel safe.

I know the feeling intimately. I truly wish that for you. I hope you can get what you need to help you function in this fucked society.

Thanks for sharing your process, it appears very efficient. I'm just grasping at straws, but do you think there's an interview coach (one that works specifically with autism would be amazing, if they exist) that could work with you? Would a recruiter be able to help? I'm guessing there are fees associated, which is not real helpful when you're unemployed.

The thing that helped me the most is recognizing that the interviewers are not necessarily looking for the most technically competent, they're looking for people who can sit in the hierarchy without threatening it. In general, that doesn't align with an autistic brain. But I'm also high masking, which may not apply to you and will unfortunately likely make it more difficult to exist in a neurotypical-dominant world. I also started with a very low demand job and kept building interpersonal skills and mechanisms to cope with being autistic.

Though I've also been dealing with massive burnout for the last 3-5 years, so I'm probably not the paramount example of a successful, long term strategy. Ultimately, I'm continuing to look at entrepreneurship as a sustainable path.

[–] Norodix@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know what the job market is like where you live, but for me the things that help lamd jobs were my silly hobby projects.

At the time of my first job it was a smarthome like thing. Just some temperature measjrements and thermostat switching, but later in the job they told me how hard it is to hire people who only do school.

Do something cool for yourself and it will help you in other ways.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do something cool for yourself and it will help you in other ways.

For sanity's sake, that's probably what I'm going to have to do.

[–] Norodix@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

A big upside of this approach is that it is also just cool to do something cool.

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude, that fucking sucks and sounds so miserable. Like another user said, it also seems like you don't have much support. I don't know what your social situation is like, but maybe you find your way into a social setting that potentially has electrical engineers in it. This could help on 2 fronts.

One, you might find some helpful support in friends, especially those that get the position you are in. Just having someone to rant to and have them understand could be quite alleviating. It has definitely helped me in the past. Also, getting involved in something can distract your mind from the shitty situation you're in and give your mind a break from the topic to recharge.

Two, making friends with electrical engineers could help you network. They may hear about job opportunities, have suggestions for avenues you might not be aware of, and even put in a good word for you.

Does anyone know of any settings where someone might make friends with electrical engineers? It doesn't have to be electrical engineering specific or exclusive, just a place where someone might find a few. For example, if I wanted to find others in social services, I could volunteer with a local non-profit, help care for animals somehow, or find an informal group of people that like helping their community. There are bound to be some social services people there. As for electrical engineering, maybe like a robot building hobby/competition scene?? 🤷‍♂️

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

I don't know what your social situation is like

Zero other than my immediate family and interviewers. I wouldn't even begin to know how to make friends.

but maybe you find your way into a social setting that potentially has electrical engineers in it.

That's a great idea, although off the top of my head the only places where I know for sure that EE's congregate are at IEEE (can't afford membership dues) and the school's robotics club (not currently a student). I'm open to suggestions.

[–] Tabero@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, if the issue is that you have no work experience, then that's what you need.

Have you considered applying to temp positions? Part or full time. There are staffing companies that focus on specific industries, so you might not find an engineering job, but you could find a comp sci or IT support position. Just to get your foot on the door and get some work experience while also pulling a paycheck.

Many people I know have gotten onto the ladder this way, myself included.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Engineering firms want engineering experience, specifically internships in whatever industry the firm is in. I have about six years of experience working in food service. They know I can hold down a job.

If engineering temp positions existed, I would have applied for them by now. I've applied for everything engineering but internships.

I suppose I might have to start applying for internships... but I did a (non-engineering) internship eight years ago and that fucking sucked and didn't help me with the career I was pursuing at the time. (Yes I'm old.)

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your link to your old post doesn't work for me, goes to some crypto thing.

Do you mention that you have autism in your CV? Maybe it you adjust the interviewers expectstions, so any time you are unintentionally rude or curt they might be more understanding? ( I have no idea if this is a good idea or not)

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Your link to your old post doesn't work for me, goes to some crypto thing.

That's wack. I just checked it in Jerboa, Firefox, and Firefox again but actually switching to the copy of the post hosted on your instance. All of them pointed to the correct link ( which should not be crypto-related; I'm not a fan of crypto, and I have yet to mention it anywhere on Lemmy, besides a few characters ago).

Try this: https://programming.dev/post/548878

Do you mention that you have autism in your CV?

Thank you for the suggestion, but I am 100% not putting that on the resumé. If it goes anywhere, it goes in the "do you have any disabilities" section employers are required to post. Based on the dozen or so engineers I've met in my family and my colleagues in engineering school, I 1000% do not trust engineering firms to use any information to not fuck me over.

If I'm a little rude, I'm a dime a dozen. Most engineers are direct and to the point, possibly at the expense of politeness (myself included). If I'm autistic, that invites a whole bunch of preconceived notions that an otherwise good interview cannot fix.

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

Dunno what the deal was with the link, but that one worked.

You're right that rudeness/directness is common amongst engineers, but getting past the interview process often requires masking that and at least faking being pleasant. I do respect your opinion here though, I wouldnt want to get labelled and put in a box either.

Does your uni/college/whatever have a careers department? Mine did that offered interview practice and feedback, maybe that could be valuable for you?

In any case, best of luck, i hope things turn around for you soon. Remember you really only need to get your foot in the door once, and after that it gets a lot easier.