this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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Some of the many articles about it:

The notion that wolves fight amongst each other and the strongest becomes the "alpha" and the weakest is the "omega" and all that, is a misconception that has been debunked ages ago, and even the author of the study who called them "alphas" in the first place is pleading with his old publisher to stop printing the dang book already so this misconception can finally die out.

Wolf packs are more or less just families. One "breeding pair" and their pups, which often stay with their parents way into adulthood.

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[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 208 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Considering the original study only documented Wolves in captivity I explain it like this: Alpha, Beta, Sigma, whatever, is just the type of prison bitch you'd be, so congrats.

[–] justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world 113 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Exactly this. Put any one species into a tiny depressing enclosure with way too many strangers and way too little food, and they will fight and establish a pecking order eventually. This has nothing to do with how the same species would behave in the wild and with enough resources to live comfortably, and the author realized that mistake years ago and is since trying to correct it.

But I guess the entire "alpha male" thing is just too popular with certain people ... ahem.

[–] Synnr@sopuli.xyz 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I chuckle inside and exit the room at the first chance when someone non-jokingly refers to themselves as an alpha male. And that's not because I'm afraid of them--the fact is that I'm the alpha male.

/s

Humans in packed cities could be described in a similar way though, if there's not a social reinforcement in place, by the community elders who are respected and followed, to keep them from it. I live in a medium sized city now because of work, but even still I can relate to the rats [I'm aware of the studies flaws].

Put any one species into a [packed] depressing [space] with way too many strangers and way too [varied amounts of resources per individual], and they will fight and establish a pecking order eventually. This has nothing to do with how the same species would behave in the wild and with enough resources to live comfortably.

I grew up in the country with tens of acres and my nearest neighbor was a mile away. Separated from the small town nearby by a river and surrounded by thick hedgerows going miles around in every direction, with a huge open space (fields) between our house and the hedgerows. I've never been happy in the city. No matter where I am, I feel like I'm in a cage. I'm not agoraphobic but there's a sense of being 'watched' when I leave my house that just isn't there when you live in a remote area. All the people, sights, sounds, smells can be incredibly overwhelming at times.

I am only capable of attaining a true level of peace when I'm in nature.

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[–] PixxlMan@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Whether or not it's a real concept doesn't matter to these people, all that matters is whether it appeals to their pre conceived notions or not.

[–] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also a great argument for the fact that caging humans doesn't change anything in a positive direction. Especially when you enslave them too like in countries with barbaric penal systems such as the US.

[–] justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The sad part is that a no small amount of prisons (especially "for profit" prisons) don't have the end goal of rehabiliting the inmates in the first place. It's all about cheap labor. They don't want to change anything into a positive direction.

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[–] mycatiskai@lemmy.one 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Funny that pecking order is something you see in chickens. So these human alpha males are copying hen behavior.

[–] snooggums@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We see it chickens that are in a prison like environment.

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[–] Preciseid@lemmy.world 95 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] PorkTaco@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Alpha: Incomplete, generally unstable and full of errors.

[–] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also, not fit for public consumption

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[–] CatZoomies@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

In other related news, the makers of these shirts watched their stock prices plummet today:

[–] dipshit@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I’m not sure ‘alphas’ are the target market for this shirt.

Actually, I’d love to see this shirt on self-proclaimed alphas. Would be so.. badass…

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[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 15 points 1 year ago

The magic of Three Wolf Moon exists on an entirely different plane than anything else wolf related. Those wolves are no longer a one-man wolfpack.

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] snooggums@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

But that is a group photo, nothing alpha about it.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 73 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ironically its that they don't have "alphas" in the wild because they just separate and leave each other alone...

For humans in school, prisons, and even just work environments we're a lot more like captive wolves than wild

This terminology arose from research done on captive wolf packs in the mid-20th century—but captive packs are nothing like wild ones, Mech says. When keeping wolves in captivity, humans typically throw together adult animals with no shared kinship. In these cases, a dominance hierarchy arises, Mech adds, but it’s the animal equivalent of what might happen in a human prison, not the way wolves behave when they are left to their own devices.

That being said, any person describing themselves as an alpha is usually a big piece of shit.

[–] justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Personally, I like the "alpha as in new software" approach: Alpha version = unstable, missing important features, filled with flaws, prone to breakdown and not fit for the public.

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[–] mean_bean279@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (5 children)

A lot of guys have started calling themselves sigma males, but i just approach them and tell them I'm a Smegma male which is over a sigma male. 😤 these are facts that cannot be disputed.

[–] MrTulip@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] LemmyNameMyself@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Me? I'm more of a π-male myself

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[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Just like the vaccines cause autism study, this won't ever die out. People only ever remember the original.

[–] sebinspace@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People only ever remember the original.

And only partially so. Conveniently, they forget the part where, IIRC, guy was just trying to promote his own vaccine

[–] PM_ME_FEET_PICS@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ironic. It wasn't his own vaccine. It was two vaccines that he held stock in.

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

His name was on the patent. There was a second name on it as well, and that guy was someone whom the first cited. This second guy lost his license two years before publishing his paper, that the infamous one cited.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I tried explaining this to a "dog person" and they wanted no part of it. It was like telling a child Santa Claus wasn't real or something

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[–] meldroc@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

These days, the only people still using this debunked wolf talk are douchebros, chuds, & incels.

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[–] Sabre363@sh.itjust.works 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Try telling Andrew Taint this

...so he can have a total meltdown over an internet stranger again? =P

[–] WarmSoda@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

I tried, but I don't know the address to the prison he's in.

[–] pingveno@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just call them good doggos. Is that okay?

[–] sirico@feddit.uk 20 points 1 year ago
[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Indeed. There are many still who are making big bucks on this misconception. The worst offender in my opinion is "The dog whisperer", who is likely the worst well known dog trainer, and has done (and still does) a lot of damage. The whole basis for his school of thought is based on this alpha/beta/omega hierarchy.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

I only watched his show once and it was so clear that he was abusive that I couldn't even watch the whole episode. Just disgusting.

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[–] twelvefloatinghands@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Chimpanzees do, though (source). and they're closer to humans than wolves.

The whole alpha wolf thing kind of sounds like projection.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't mind calling the posers prime chimps.

[–] twelvefloatinghands@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Honestly, that feels like giving them too much credit. Chimps are fucking terrifying. The more I learn about them, the more I wonder "jesus fucking christ, how badass/insane was Jane Goodall?!". Those things are the closest things to real demons I've ever heard about.

Edit: well, aside from particularly unhinged humans

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[–] Classy@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Alpha hyenas, however, those are definitely real. But they're boss babes so the PUAs can't work with that

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 12 points 1 year ago

Alpha dommy mommies

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[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 12 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure Moon Moon is an alpha version wolf.

[–] aliser@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

LIES, EVERYONE KNOWS I'M THE ALPHA AWOOOOOO 🐺🐺🐺

[–] squib@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People who say alpha wolves don't exist obviously never seen me crankin my hog. ARRRROOOOOOOO

[–] 567PrimeMover@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

HE'LL YEAH BROTHER NOTHING LIKE CRANKING A COLD ONE AFTER CRACKING YOURE HOG AROOOOOOO

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're called High Value Wolves these days.

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[–] Mr_Blott@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I mean if you believed that shit in the first place you're probably not going to believe this post eh

At least it helps point out the awful people who use the terms "Alpha" and "Beta" unironically to describe people.

[–] Scrof@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Wolves are also scavengers and would gladly eat rotten corpses, trash and literal shit (just like dogs).

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