this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2025
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257
Giving Up on Element & Matrix.org (xn--gckvb8fzb.com)
submitted 1 day ago by mesamunefire@piefed.social to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 19 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

We really need to stop abandoning existing foss projects and thinking a whole new thing needs to be invented. Free and open-source software is not a product, it doesn't abide by the same rules and relationships that proprietary tech does.

It's more organic. It's also a commons that we can continue to draw on, and reshape. If I recall correctly, there were something like three different vector graphic editors from the same codebase before Inkscape managed to be the one that gained traction.

Matrix isn't perfect, but abandoning it just to reinvent it all over again just because some people really need a thing that works like Discord, even though Discord is absolute hot garbage; is just going to re-create all the same problems. Matrix today is better than it was two years ago. And Matrix in a year will be better from now.

[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

Can't agree on Discord being hot garbage, unless you're specifically talking about how monetisation has creeped its way into it.

However, with Vencord I don't have to see any of that shit, while also having a far more functional and feature rich client.

Of course, a FOSS, potentially federated alternative would be greatly preferred, but it must have at least the basic functions of Discord.

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Often, the problem is that projects get to a point where they're happy and the maintainer doesn't want to add any new features. So people then are forced to build a new project to get those features.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 5 hours ago

Sometimes, but my point is you don't have to start from scratch. It's free software. You are allowed to make extensions or even fork it.

[–] Blemish5236@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I agree. We should all abandon Matrix and implement any missing features into IRC or maybe XMPP

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 5 hours ago

Sure, go for it. Though XMPP has so many features at this point, it might already have Matrix, irc, Discord, and email for all we know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] romantired@shibanu.app 1 points 5 hours ago

♻️ какой смысл пользоваться этим медленным гавном прекратите, ватсап, имхо очень хорош

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

I've used matrix for a year now and it works, but it seems slow.

Lots of people tried to self-host it and reported it uses too much RAM for what it does. (It allegedly uses 1GB or more of ram even if it only has 1-2 users)

Efficient software is a must. Software must not waste resources simply because "they are there". That's my biggest gripe with matrix.

Disclaimer: i've not tried to host matrix myself, so i could be wrong here.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 4 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Its running about 1GB for me and my server setup. It spikes a bit if there is a lot going on, but it can get low than that when its just idling. Its not terrible, but given irc and other clients which take MB for RAM...its a bit of a hog-ish.

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

IRC is dead simple. You cant compare something like matrix to it in terms of resource usage thats not fair. 1GB of ram usage if fine for a server application that does messaging, pictures and video.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

well there's the problem, i have a small server available but it only has 4 GB in total and i'm also hosting other things on it, including a luanti game world

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Im running the equivalent to a pi 5 so yeah it can run with a slight delay. You may have some issues with the spikes, definitely if its more than a couple of people. 4GB in total, you will probably have to figure out if its worth it.

Also updates sometimes borks the server. Ive stopped updating until I have time to really sit down and understand what changed.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

there should be a more efficient re-implementation but i don't have time to even attempt that :/

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 points 5 hours ago

Yeah thats fair.

[–] shiroininja@lemmy.world 9 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

I don’t know why people don’t use irc, I’m in it daily and it’s busier than Matrix, and even busier than some Discord servers I’m in. And there’s mobile clients. There’s even way less bots and spam

[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago

yup I went back to IRC. got tired of discord and matrix just wasn't for me. IRC is where it's add. still remember all the stuff from the 90s so it was just like riding a bike. plus I can have it in my Terminal which is a plus.

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

I think the barrier to entry is kind of high, you need to use a bouncer to see what happened while you were offline.

[–] shiroininja@lemmy.world 10 points 11 hours ago

I don’t really worry about that. I treat it like natural conversation, or traditional chat rooms. I mean I don’t need a recap when I show up at a party. I just jump in. I’ve never heard of a bouncer, but I think it would turn it into more of a feed than a conversation, which is the opposite of what I want.

I’m tired of feeds and timelines. AOL chat rooms were my formative internet years, and I liked that. I think the old style of internet communication is better than the feed silos we have now. Besides, I hardly ever go back and look at older convos in other spaces. I usually hit mark all as read when I open the app.

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[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

I'm completely afraid of logging into fedora.im now. It's so engulfed in spam, not even normal phishing spam. Absolutely horrifying spam, like gore and killing and other deranged shit.

I had to move back to matrix.org and abandon my account.

[–] Shape4985@lemmy.ml 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Iv tried matrix a couple times. I wanted to like it but couldnt get on with it.

Signal and simplex are still my prefrence

[–] atmorous@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

Try out Session. It's one of the best ones that are lesser known

[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

all this stuff just made me go back to IRC and realize how much I missed it.

[–] Netrunner@programming.dev 12 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Self hosted matrix works great. /thread

[–] kevincox@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 hours ago

Yeah, I finally pulled the trigger and moved to my own domain from matrix.org. Man, it is just so much faster. Which is sad, because the performance is pretty bad. (Element Web seems to do some per-room request as part of the initial loading screen which is obviously not scalable) but getting off of matrix.org is a huge performance improvement.

That being said there is nothing really wrong with matrix.org. The problem is really public rooms. People will join and spam. It is true of any protocol (have you heard about email?) but Matrix definitely needs to (and they are slowly working on) make it more expensive for spammers.

[–] Yaky@slrpnk.net 3 points 12 hours ago

I've been hosting a server without much problems for several years now.

Synapse and Riot.im (now Element) became much better around 2019 or 2020. But not too long ago, I also found out that Synapse also bloats the DB with state_groups_state table. There are a handful of commands that come with synapse, but no built-in admin tool or panel, so I wrote my own. Moving server to another host has been seamless for my (few) users. TURN/STUN for calls seems to work okay (I don't really use it though).

I appreciate Element being uniform across platforms (which I cannot say about XMPP clients), but the sign-in is pretty tedious, and registration with a token is still impossible last time I checked (which is either a hassle for the user to use another client and then their smart device, or a security issue if you open registration to anyone). Most normal people probably don't care and don't want to deal with keys, cross-verification, and all that jazz.

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