this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2025
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[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 11 points 23 hours ago

Hope they lose billions!!

[–] Jhuskindle@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Same thing happened during the outsourcing craze of early 2000s. Everything and I mean everything moved to India or Philippines. There's even a movie about it because it was so common. I and everyone else lost our jobs. about a year later the contracts expired and we all got jobs back and outsourcing is used in balance. Eventually ai use will be balanced I hope. It cannot replace us. Not yet anyways.

[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

AI needs to be used as a tool for workers, not a replacement for workers. They will figure it out eventually.

[–] reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 day ago

The even brighter side of it is that it should be easier to spot these companies when job hunting.

IMO: Demand higher wages and iron clad contracts from them because they already demonstrated how they feel about paying people.

They’ll surely cut anyone they can again as soon as they can.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 142 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

AI as it exists today is only effective if used sparingly and cautiously by someone with domain knowledge who can identify the tasks (usually menial ones) that don't need a human touch.

[–] Awkwardparticle@programming.dev 7 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

The biggest point is that you must be an expert in the field you are using it in. I rarely get fooled by hallucinations and stupid bugs because they are glaringly obvious to me. The best use case is having the llm write code for using a library that has poor documentation, that am going to use once, and I am too lazy to learn. These tools are scary when used by juniors, they are creating more work for everyone by using llms to code. I just imagine myself using this when I was a fresh grad, it is terrifying. It would have only been one step up from vibe coding.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 3 points 23 hours ago

I feel so bad for recent grads. First COVID then AI/LLMs, it's such a bad time to be starting out. I feel so fortunate that I'm well into my career and can use AI responsibly without having to worry too much about it.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago

may well be a Gell-Mann amnesia simulator when used improperly.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

This is the best description of current AI I've seen so far.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago

In the situation outlined, it can be pretty effective.

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 47 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This 1000x. I am a PHP developer, I found out about two months ago that the AI assistant is included in my Jetbrains subscription (All pack, it was a separate thing before). And recently found about Junie, their AI agent that has deep thinking (or whatever the hell it is called). I tried it the same day to refactor part of my test that had to migrated to stop using a deprecated function call.

To my surprise, it required only very minor changes, but what would've taken me about 3 hours was done in half an hour. What I also liked was that it actually asked if it can run a terminal command to verify thr test results and it went back and fixed a broken test or two.

Finally I have faith in AI being useful to programmers.

For a test, I took our dev exam (for potential candidates) and just sent it to see what it does just based on the document, and besides a few mistakes it even used modern tools and not some 5 year old stuff (like PSR standards) and implemented core systems by itself using well known interfaces (from said PSRs). I asked it to change Dependency Injection to use Symfony DI instead of the self-made thing, and it worked flawlessly.

Of course, the code has to be reviewed or heavily specified to make sure it does what it is told to, but all in all it doesn't look like just a gimmick anymore.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 31 points 2 days ago

Absolutely, this matches my experience. I think this is also the experience of most coders who willingly use AI. I feel bad for the people who are forced to use it by their companies. And those who are laid off because of C-levels who think AI is capable of replacing an experienced coder.

[–] vivalapivo@lemmy.today 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

it doesn't look like just a gimmick anymore.

It still does 😞

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 2 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

There is no value in arguing about subjective topics. Feels useful to me if you know how to use it, used to generate one of the worst and random pieces of code you could create.

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[–] TuffNutzes@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Very expected. It's fine. I'll come back at 10 times my previous rate. And you'll thank me for it. Fucking chads.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 75 points 2 days ago
[–] MisterNeon@lemmy.world 186 points 2 days ago (10 children)

I hope this is true. I would like to have a job again.

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 116 points 2 days ago (10 children)

It's true, although the smart companies aren't laying off workers in the first place, because they're treating AI as a tool to enhance their productivity rather than a tool to replace them.

[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 109 points 2 days ago (9 children)

I don’t know if it even helps with productivity that much. A lot of bosses think developers’ entire job is just churning out code when it’s actually like 50% coding and 50% listening to stakeholders, planning, collaborating with designers, etc. I mean, it’s fine for a quick Python script or whatever but that might save an experienced developer 20 minutes max.

And if you “write” me an email using Chat GPT and I just read a summary, what is the fucking point? All the nuance is lost. Specialized A.I. is great! I’m all for it combing through giant astronomy data sets or protein folding and stuff like that. But I don’t know that I’ve seen generative A.I. without a specific focus increase productivity very much.

[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 96 points 2 days ago (4 children)

As a senior developer, my most productive days are genuinely when I remove a lot of code. This might seem like negative productivity to a naive beancounter, but in fact this is my peak contribution to the software and the organization. Simplifying, optimizing, identifying what code is no longer needed, removing technical debt, improving maintainability, this is what requires most of my experience and skill and contextual knowledge to do safely and correctly. AI has no ability to do this in any meaningful way, and code bases filled with mostly AI generated code are bound to become an unmaintainable nightmare (which I will eventually be paid handsomely to fix, I suspect)

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A lot of bosses think developers’ entire job is just churning out code when it’s actually like 50% coding and 50% listening to stakeholders, planning, collaborating with designers, etc.

A lot of leadership is incompetent. In a reasonable, just, world they would not be in these decision making positions.

Verbose blogger Ed Zitron wrote about this. He called them "Business Idiots": https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-era-of-the-business-idiot/

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[–] Photuris@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 days ago

Productivity will go up, wages will remain the same, and no additional time off will be given to employees. They’ll merely be required to produce 4x as much and compensation will not increase to match.

It seems the point of all these machines and automation isn’t to make our individual lives easier and more prosperous, but instead to increase and maximize shareholder value.

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Deserved and expected

[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 101 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (11 children)

As someone who has been a consultant/freelance dev for over 20 years now this is true. Lately I've been getting offers and contacts from places to essentially clean up the mess from LLMs/AI.

A lot of is pretty bad. It's a mess. But like I said I've been at it for awhile and I've seen this before when companies were offshoring anything and everything to India and surprise, surprise, they didn't learn anything. It's literally the exact same thing. Instead of an Indian guy that claims they know everything and will work for peanuts, it's AI pretty much stating the same shit.

I've been getting so many requests for gigs I've been hitting up random out of work devs on linkedin in my city and referring the jobs to them. I've burned through all my contacts that now I'm just reaching out to absolute strangers to get them work.

yes it's that bad (well bad for companies, it's fantastic for developers.)

EDIT: Since my comment has gained a lot of traction I've marked down peoples user names and portfolios/emails to my dev list. If something more comes up (and trust me, it will) I'll shoot you an email or msg on here. Currently I've already shoved off a bunch of stuff to others and have nothing as of now but I imagine that will change by next week so if more stuff comes up I'll shoot you an email or DM.

[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 35 points 2 days ago (2 children)

We've hired a bunch of Indian guys who are using AI to do their work... the results are marginally better than either approach independently.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 15 hours ago

Absent Indians using AI? The AI ouroboros?

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 15 points 2 days ago (4 children)

a negative times a negative is a positive?

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Retired dev here, I'm curious about the nature of "the mess". Is it buggy AI-generated code that got into production? I know an active dev who uses ChatGTP every day, says it saves him a hell of a lot of work. What he does sounds like "vibe coding". If you're using AI for grunt work and keep a human is in the workflow to verify the code, I don't see how it would differ from junior devs working under a senior. Have some companies been using poorly managed all-AI tools or what? Sorry for the long question.

[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

essentially, from what I've been dealing with, most if it is their offshore people using the AI to completely do the job from start to finish and no one is verifying anything. So it's not even vibe coding, it's "here's a prompt, build it, i'm pushing it to production" coding.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

LOL, sort of like hiring the CEO's unemployed brother in law to build your new factory because he has a friend who knows about construction.

[–] GojuRyu@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

An example from work a few weeks ago. I fixed some vibe coded UI code that had made it to prod. The layout of the UI was basically just meant to be an easy overview of information relevant to an item. The LLM had done everything right except it assumed a weird mix of tailwind and bootstrap, mixing and matching css classes from both. After I implemented the classes myself it went from a single column view to grids and nested grids grouping the data intuitively. I talked with the dev who implemented it, and basically it was just something quickly cobbled together with AI until it was passable. The AI had added a lot of extra that served no function and that didn’t conform to a single css framework, but looked like it could. For months noone questioned it despite talk about that part of the UI needing a facelift.

I don’t know how representative it is, but about half the time I’m thoroughly confused about a piece of code and why it was written the way it was, the answer has turned out to be AI. And unlike when a developer wrote it, there rarely is any reason to have written it the weird way.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

TBH that sounds like a lot of code I've seen from outsourcing companies in India. Their typical approach is to copy an existing program, module, web page or whatever and modify it as quickly as possible to turn it into what's needed. The result is often a mishmash of irrelevant code, giant data queries that happen to retrieve some field that's needed along with a ton of unnecessary crap, mixing frameworks, etc.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 35 points 1 day ago

thats because the main peddlers are the ceo/csuites of these tech companies, and the customers arnt people like you or me, its other corporate heads. in case of palintir it would be the government.

[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 99 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Vibe coding is 5% asking for code and 95% cleaning up the code, turns out replacing people with AI is exactly the same.

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[–] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago

Let them burn.

[–] KbSez@piefed.social 21 points 1 day ago

no surprise

[–] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 57 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Ah so AI does create jobs, it’s the Zorg logic

[–] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Jean-Baptiste

Emmanuel

Zorg

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[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 59 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Same thing happened with companies that used outsourcing expecting it to be a magic bullet.

[–] otacon239@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I worked in one of these companies. Within months, we went from a company I would be proud to recommend to friends to a service I would never use myself, just due to the horrendous route they took to hire overseas support.

The line of tech work I was in required about a month of training after passing the interview process, and even then you had to take a test at the end to prove you’d absorbed the material before you ever speak to a customer.

When they outsourced, they just bought a company of like 30 people in an adjacent industry and gave them a week of training. Our call queues were never worse and every customer was angry with everyone by the time they talked to someone who had training.

I don’t blame the overseas agents. I blame all the companies that treat them like cattle.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 31 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Companies with stupid leaders deserve to fail.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 33 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Well what ends up happening is some company will have a CEO.

He'll make all the stupid decisions. But they're only stupid from everybody ELSES perspective.

From his perspective, he uses AI, tanks the companies future in the chase of large short term stock gains. Then he gives himself a huge bonus, leaves the company, gets hired somewhere else, and gets to say "See how that company is failing without me? That's because I bring value to the brand."

So he gets hired at the neeeext place, meanwhile that first company is failing because of the actions of a CEO no longer employed there, and whom bailed because he knew what was coming.

These actions aren't stupid. They're plotted corruption for the benefit of one.

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 47 points 2 days ago (3 children)

All the leadership who made this mistake should be fired. They are clearly incompetent

But i guess it's always labor that pays the price

[–] magic_lobster_party@fedia.io 22 points 2 days ago

You know they’re just going to get bonuses and promotions.

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[–] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 days ago

AI: The new outsourcing?

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