this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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THE POLICE PROBLEM

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

RULES

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If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.

Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.

Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

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It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.

♦ ♦ ♦

ALLIES

!abolition@slrpnk.net

!acab@lemmygrad.ml

r/ACAB

r/BadCopNoDonut/

Randy Balko

The Civil Rights Lawyer

The Honest Courtesan

Identity Project

MirandaWarning.org

♦ ♦ ♦

INFO

A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

Adultification

Cops aren't supposed to be smart

Don't talk to the police.

Killings by law enforcement in Canada

Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

Killings by law enforcement in the United States

Know your rights: Filming the police

Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

So you wanna be a cop?

When the police knock on your door

♦ ♦ ♦

ORGANIZATIONS

Black Lives Matter

Campaign Zero

Innocence Project

The Marshall Project

Movement Law Lab

NAACP

National Police Accountability Project

Say Their Names

Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

 

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[–] sudo@programming.dev 251 points 3 weeks ago (18 children)

Utterly delusional to think any of that would work. At every step you would just get your face beaten in. When the cops come they too will just beat your face in.

Thinking you can castle doctrine a squad of ICE agents is equally delusional. You could probably take a couple out but you'd still die in the end and be risking the lives of anyone that lives with you.

The only solution is well known and already in practice in places like LA: have an active community response force that will show up and intimidate and harass the ICE agents. All of the previous delusions assume you, alone, can stop an ICE with just your privledge.

[–] NutWrench@lemmy.world 88 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

No badges, no uniforms, driving unmarked cars and wearing masks? I think any person could successfully argue in court that they thought they were being kidnapped by criminals.

[–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 132 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

You never get to court, that's the point the previous comment is making.

As an individual trying to stand up to them you're somewhere between being either completely ineffectual or making the situation worse. Having the law on your side doesn't matter because it's impossible for you to summon the enforcement of it fast enough to help you, assuming they even would.

A local community response that will mobilize and appear in your neighborhood in seconds is basically the only way to respond quickly with enough force for them to care about.

[–] anomnom@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 weeks ago

The people in LA Matt have been tracking and following the ice vehicles to some extent. We need that everywhere.

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[–] lovely_reader@lemmy.world 28 points 3 weeks ago

You're probably right, but you'd have to make it to court. Not everyone does..

[–] sudo@programming.dev 18 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

If ICE is coming for you, then you're not seeing court. If you're some interfering bystander then maybe you will. But then you're plan to lie to the judge and say you didn't know? The judge will see through you're bullshit immediately.

Like that could only work if you actually were ignorant and even then you'd have a long up hill legal battle to establish the precedent that its sometimes OK to shoot law enforcement. IANAL but I think thats a liberty the state has never been conceded.

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[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 32 points 3 weeks ago

There were posters stapled to phone polls in my area with what to do when ice is around. Demand id, demand a warrent etc etc.

The next day there were news stories of ice not even caring about any of that.

They do not care about the law. Lock your door and hide. If you're a neighbor tell them no one's home. That's about as much as you can do as an individual.

[–] AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 24 points 2 weeks ago

Folks also need to be tearing down the local deathcamps, and rescuing the people still alive in them.

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[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 166 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ideally while having someone who isn't you record the interaction, so when they drop you to the pavement and your phone 'regrettably' gets smashed to pieces, there's still some external record of what went down.

[–] EmptySlime@lemmy.blahaj.zone 77 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Livestreaming the encounter could also potentially work. But yeah, ideally you probably want as many different camera angles and recordings as you can.

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[–] Greyghoster@aussie.zone 117 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

They wear the masks so they can’t be identified. They don’t want their kids friends and school friends to know that what they do.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 43 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I don't think they care what their family thinks of them .... I think they care about how angry democratically minded citizens see them as unidentified fascists hiding behind masks

If what you are doing is legal, legitimate and moral ... then you never have to mask your name or hide your face

If what you are doing is illegal, immoral and highly dangerous to everyone including you and your family and you know it .. then you are more apt to want to hide your identity and avoid having to deal with the repercussions of what you know is wrong

[–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 weeks ago

If what you are doing is legal, legitimate and moral ... then you never have to mask your name or hide your face

Disregard this, hide your face at protests people

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[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 99 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

If a person impersonating a cop spouted out some random digits when I asked for their badge and serial number, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.

[–] Djinn_Indigo@lemm.ee 52 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That's what the call is for- you ask the local office if they can confirm that that officer is actually on patrol, exists, etc. Idk how that would work for ICE though; I don't think you can just call up the federal ICE headquarters.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 49 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

That's not what the post says. It says call 911 if they refuse. It gives no guidance on what to do if they respond.

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[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 75 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Dial 911 first, and say there's a masked person with a gun. No need to qualify that shit.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 29 points 2 weeks ago

My thoughts exactly. You think gestapo is gonna wait patiently while you call 911?

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[–] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 68 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

This always makes me think, if you resist an "ice agent" because they have not identified themselves, your not liable right? Like if you go infront of a court wouldn't you have a good case to say, "they didn't identify themselves, I thought I might be assaulted or kidnapped by someone"

[–] Akrenion@slrpnk.net 86 points 3 weeks ago

There is a reason why they suspend due process.

You are being kidnapped.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 73 points 3 weeks ago

Your first mistake was assuming you would be allowed to see a court.

[–] PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 63 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Except you won't go to a court. You'll go to a camp.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 62 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

No. When an armed, masked man with no ID assaults you, you fucking shoot him dead, or do your damnedest.

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 61 points 3 weeks ago

Don't even engage; just call 911 immediately. If they're not proactively proving their legitimacy they're already guilty.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 59 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Skip straight to step 3. Just call 911. These guys aren't fucking around, and neither should you.

[–] Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Exactly what I thought. If their intent is to kill you they aren't going to mess around while you ask several times threatening to call the police.

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[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 55 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

Next protest literally everyone should dress up in the same outfit the ICE officers dress in. Who would they arrest?

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 26 points 3 weeks ago

I was in autopilot reading this like don't dress like cops then I remembered the cops aren't dressing like cops. (I'm very sleepy.)

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 45 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

God damn, people. Didn't masked ICE agents snatch the New York City Comptroller and the migrant who had showed up for a hearing from the center of a heavily policed immigration court? Did anyone on the NYPD try and stop them?

You can see a local police officer in the fucking headline image. He's holding back the press and letting masked ICE agents do as thou wilt. If the local PD won't stick their necks out for a municipal senior official, what are the odds they're going to do it for you?

This, after a sitting US Senator was arrested during a press conference? Who are you fooling?

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[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 44 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Except HSI and ICE don’t have badge numbers, so you’d say, “What’s your name and call sign?” The call sign is most commonly a letter followed by 3 digits. ex: A-123

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Customs_and_Border_Protection

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 37 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Great idea.
Hopefully they're not already five deep on you and have you handcuffed and took your phone.

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[–] polyamorypagan69@lemm.ee 37 points 3 weeks ago

Yes still our enemies of oppression and facasium.

[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 32 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (20 children)

If one of the possible answers to your question is "yes, I am indeed armed, and committing a felony by impersonating a law enforcement officer", you should reconsider your most recent life choices. In particular, asking them that question.

Observe from a safe distance, and call 911. What on earth do you hope to gain by going up to them for a chat?

excuuuuuuuse me. Are you actually taking people hostages? Or is this some kind of publicity stunt? Hellooo?! Are you really shooting at me? That's just, like, so rude.

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[–] Fingolfinz@lemmy.world 28 points 3 weeks ago

Saw this today maybe someone you know can be added to the list https://icelist.info/

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 23 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Before you finish your first word, you'll be facedown on the floor by 4 ICE officers telling you not to "resist"

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[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

It would be incredible if we could get through a lawsuit to news stations anytime they make bad assumptions in articles. They continually write "Federal agents detained ..." when they should be writing "A team of unidentified individuals in masks and armor detained ..."

Just as they are always meant to write "The suspect" not "The criminal". Nothing must be assumed in reporting (exceptions allowed if they've contacted ICE headquarters and received a confirmation of them)

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[–] asg101@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Tell that to their handcuffs and guns.

[–] asg101@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 3 weeks ago

I guess I should have said "No legitimacy".

[–] postcapitalism@lemmy.today 20 points 2 weeks ago

The real answer is anytime you see ICE acting extra-judicially call the police to report masked armed men trespassing and assaulting people.

Be vague. You don’t know who they are, they look suspicious, they look like they are about to commit a crime, this could be an active shooter/crime in progress , pointed a gun at you…. You know facts.

[–] normalexit@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Yeah. Cops will help the situation..

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[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago

Like they,are going to give you the time to do this shit.

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