Prove you're not a camel. Props to Timothy Snyder for calling that one.
this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2025
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Friendly reminder: suspending habeas corpus for illegal immigrants means that you have NO LEGAL RECOURSE WHATSOEVER if ICE wrongly detains you.
You cannot in any way prove in a court of law that you are not an illegal immigrant if you have no right to have your detention as an illegal immigrant challenged in court.
It DOES NOT MATTER if you have great evidence that you're not an illegal immigrant if illegal immigrants lose their right to trial. It means NOTHING because you then immediately lose your right to legal defence as soon as ICE detans you.
Watson says that, looking back, he’s not confident that the damage long-term imprisonment did to his mind and body was worth it to remain in the country. “As lovely as America sounds, it’s not everything. It’s okay to start back over and live your life, because sometimes you’re gonna sit there for a long time if you’re fighting,” he says. His advice to other citizens in ICE detention is to remain open to giving up, if deportation means getting out of jail
Only do that if you know you'll actually be deported - rather than imprisoned offshore.
I fully agree with the comments criticizing the ICE and proof of citizenship. The shitty part, the judicial branch is not arresting nor penalizing the business owners hiring illegal labor and a lot of those fuckers voted for this shit.
Yeah, that's the problem isn't it? I have to assume that if there was nowhere to work, there'd be less folks coming here illegally. It's just known you can come, work your ass off, get paid pretty well in cash, and send that shit home on a weekly basis. And there's rules about what can get sent home and there are ways folks skirt that all the time. It's a whole economy. And nothing is done about the people facilitating it. It's arresting the drug user, but leaving the dealers in place.
Only people acting in good-faith care about your "proof"
Not if the people examining my documents are morons, no.
I have a birth certificate, I have a passport and a passport card. None of that is a defense against "It's fake".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/us-citizen-detained-ice-real-id
So ICE considers my government issued IDs are 'fake'....
Then we counter with saying that ICEs badges are fake and start shooting them in the fucking face if they ever try to take my wife away.
Alternately, ICE agents aren't trained/are too dumb to identify fake IDs...
Another thing to consider is the recording of a ICE kidnapping where the person said they were a natural born citizen, when asked for proof they didn't have their birth certificate on them... While in the car.. driving to work.
The white paper birth certificate... That in my case is over 50 years old, and embossed with a stamp the clerks office likely got at the local trophy shop. That's it.
Drivers license including the Real ID ones don't count it seems.
So, yes. It's being used to indiscriminately arrest who they want like the Stasi fucks they are.
Let's see the citizenship proof of every ICE agent.
Insane that the Real ID ones won't count when you need a brith certificate to get one.
Do you not need a birth certificate to get a drivers license in the US?
Usually you need multiple forms of identification, and the birth certificate could count as one, but isn't required because non-citizens can get a driver's license if they are here long enough. Someone spending the decade or so going through the slow ass process to get their citizenship needs a driver's license during that decade.
Nor do you in most countries. Generally, a passport is the most authoritative form of identification.
Not op, but most countries provide an ID that is not a passport. It needs a birth certificate. In my country that ID is far more authoritative than a passport and it even allows ingress to the country in case the passport is lost.
This ID issue is a very US thing. Most governments keep a tight registry of citizens and wouldn't have any doubt about who is and isn't a citizen.
I’d hope Ingress would be allowed in if their birth certificate said they were born there!
Do you travel abroad with your birth certificate on you?
Too poor to travel
Right but you need a birth certificate to get a US passport dont you?
Yes, because a passport is based on citizenship.
You can use a birth certificate but it's not required, there's other methods to prove your identity.
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Pretty much. The fact is that ICE does stuff like beat up and arrest a state-level union president because they don't like the color of his skin.
Don't call it an arrest.
It's detainment. Kidnapping even. But an arrest has certain procedures and requirements that are not being followed by ICE.
So does detainment. The fact that they are not following the procedures and requirements makes it an unlawful arrest or, as you correctly pointed out, kidnapping.
Time to get a global entry card as well.
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It's like proving to a Nazi, you don't have Jewish ancestry in 1938.
not if someone expects me to produce documents randomly on the sidewalk.
Without due process they can just take your documents and poof! What documents?
prints another copy out of my backpack printer
This is pretty much it. When folks are disapearin and theyre response is they are bad and now its to late oh well. No one is safe. Its literally the secret police.
Good luck once locked up without the right to an attorney
It's getting to the point very soon that the only way you stop this, is armed community resistance.
No warrant, no entry. The only way you stop the abuse of power, is by confronting it with more power.
They are bullies, they are not brave.
No, that's now. Look at what happened yesterday in L.A., for instance.
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So many things wrong with this headline.
- It is 'nearly impossible to escape' FOR ANYONE, not just US citizens. By design.
- You can be in the US legitimately without being a citizen.
- ANY AND EVERY detainment by ICE is wrongful.
- You are not legally required to provide ID to authorities. In some states you can be compelled to provide your full name and possibly your address, ONLY if there is reasonable suspicion against you.
There is an important and subtle distinction to be made here. A lot of noise is made calling people who are here without authorization "illegals", but that's not always true. Being present in the country without authorization is not automatically a criminal matter. It is true that many of the avenues for being here without authorization (crossing illegally, overstaying a visa) also violate the law, but that is handled as a separate matter.
Since immigration status is mostly a civil matter, ot a criminal one, these immigration courts are not under the Judicial Branch, like criminal courts are. They are actually "administrative courts" which are part of the Department of Justice, under the President, just like ICE is.
So while the courts occasionally provide a check on this Predident's power, the immigration courts never will. They ultimately report to the President through the DoJ, and the President has much more direct influence over it. So it doesn't surprise me that these people are stuck in a Kafkaesque hell, where ICE ignore their pleas that they are citizens and says "tell it to the judge", and when they finally get to the judge they get ignored.
Is it any wonder that Trump was so dead set against the immigration bill last year? He needed the process to stay chaotic, in order to have a better chance of winning.
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This does beg the question in my mind: If a person is wrongfully determined to be an illegal immigrant despite only having US citizenship, and is actually deported to some country ICE convinces themselves that person is from rather than "deporting" them to some prison in an unrelated country like El Salvador, they would presumably be in that other country illegally at that point. Would they be liable to be deported back to the US in such a case, by the government of that country?
The other country has to be willing to receive them. In this case, the US would probably not.
But countries like El Salvador are being paid by the US to take these people, so they don't really care about the facts, they just want the money.
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