I can't believe my friend broke containment this hard I woke up to it on lemmy lmfao
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opposite idea from mixing powdered milknin fresh milk for "more milk per milk."
This comes due to the conceptual meaning of the mother's milk as something that god made for nurture of the calf
Doing this would be extremely cruel and usage against the intended purpose
The principle was to instill a sense of profound abhorrence against cruel and unnatural acts as guidance towards perfection demanded of them to be able to be god's chosen people.
Jesus managed to completely fulfill the spirit of the law. Since that moment it was abolished for a new law.
Animals were only a part of it and thinking more about it, the Law contained a number of similar injunctions against cruelty to animals and safeguards against working contrary to the natural order of things.
For instance, the also Law included commands that prohibited sacrificing an animal unless it had been with its mother for at least seven days, slaughtering both an animal and its offspring on the same day, and taking from a nest both a mother and her eggs or offspring
(Leviticus 22:27, 28; Deuteronomy 22:6, 7)
I sort of used to have the same problem. You know, if you're gonna add oat milk to your oatmeal, you might as well just use water. But, whatever the reason, it sites taste better with oat milk.
I bet that tastes dope.
I'm conceptually opposed to oat milk generally.
It makes for a mean cappuccino, and is environmentally much, much lower impact.
Deuteronomy is originally from the Hebrew Bible. According to Jewish mythology, the book is from the sermons of Moses. Though, it's believed to be much more recent (something like a 1000 years) than the time period where the figure of Moses (or the person(s) he was based on) would have existed. But, even taking Jewish and Christian mythologies at their word, Jesus had nothing to do with that rule. Also, Jesus probably meant for this rule to end for adherents of Christianity.
Mark 7:14-23:
14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this.
15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.
18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them?
19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them.
21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder,
22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.
23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
So, feel free to boil a young goat in its mother's milk. Jesus is A-ok with that.
As I understand it, Jewish followers of the Jesus movement were meant to keep the law. However, especially after the death of Jesus, there was a lot of interest in getting gentiles on board and they, at least according to some authors (and apparently this was not a unified position?), the gentiles were not bound by the law (or maybe only by the Noahide law).
The law as per scripture is just guidance towards an impossible goal for god's worshippers and part of his chosen.
Jesus managed to fulfill the spirit of the law. Hence since that moment the law was overridden. It was replaced by a new law since then.
Deuteronomy is originally from the Hebrew Bible
And further back? Babylonian? There's some Gilgamesh and Atrahasis in the bible, Moses among others...
I would be surprised if they were borrowing ideas from other cultures in the area (and vice versa). The various peoples in Mesopotamia were interacting regularly; so, some back and forth of ideas is to be expected. Though as a law code, Deuteronomy seems like it would be more home grown.
Sorry, just recognized my typo, I meant to say "I wouldn't be surprised..."., Not sure how I missed that.
Further back than Babylon. We're talking ancient Sumer.
Sorry, much further back than the Cappadocians and you've lost me
Also, Jesus probably meant for this rule to end for adherents of Christianity.
I mean, Jesus was Jewish and he wouldn't have called his followers Christians because he hadn't died on a cross yet. He would have called them his Jewish brothers and his followers would have done the same for decades afterwards. He was the leader of a sect of Judaism.
I think what he’s referring to is much of the Jewish traditions (by other Christian denominations) are deemed unnecessary because Jesus fulfilled the prophecies and therefore “preparation” for his coming is no longer required.
It’s a little hard to explain but that’s why Christians don’t do any of the dietary restrictions in the old testament.
I understand what he's saying, he's saying that the followers believe something different.
I'm saying none of that matters. It's like being Catholic versus Lutheran, but Jewish vs. other Jewish that thinks Jesus was the Messiah. Still Jewish for at least decades, probably centuries.
They believed that while he was still alive. We know this because he and his disciples celebrated Passover at the last supper and they thought he was the messiah while he was alive.
15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
Jesus is against the pull out method confirmed.
Every sperm is sacred. Every sperm is good. If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.
It's been a long time since I read any of the bible, but wasn't there some story in it somewhere where some guy uses that and is immediately killed by god or something? (albiet I think the justification was some sort of tradition obligating him to have a child with a specific person, and his behavior was supposed to be exploiting that without fulfilling his end or something like that).
Onan was punished because he was trying to fuck over Tamar. Tamar was his brother’s wife, and his brother died. Because women had essentially no rights or property, it was expected that a widow without children would be given to her husbands brother, so he could knock her up and have a son to take care of her. (Levirate marriage)
Onan was trying to screw Tamar out of being able to survive - trying to make it so that he would inherit all of his father Judah’s money. God noticed this, and killed him.
The funny part is the follow up - Judah has another son, but is like “oh shit, this women is cursed. She’s lead to the death of two of my sons, I don’t want to lose the last one.” So he tells her to go hang out with her parents until his son is “ready” - clearly intending to blow her off forever.
So Tamar eventually catches on, realizes that she’s never getting what’s hers, so dresses up like a temple prostitute and goes to the city. Judah comes across her disguised as a prostitute, and she asks for his family crest as payment for their roll in the hay.
After this, she becomes pregnant. The elders of the group bring her before Judah, saying “hey, your daughter in law is a massive whore and is pregnant. We’re going to kill her.” He asks her who knocked her up, she produces the crest.
Judah is then like “oh dang, you got me.” She doesn’t get killed, she gets her inheritance, and is possibly an ancestor of Jesus.
Really an amazing trickster figure - very reminiscent of Jacob and Esau. The coolest story in the Bible imho - it’s so out of pocket and against the way that women are usually shown in Genesis (in a way that makes me suspect there’s a true story here somewhere). She’s just as clever as Jacob, and clearly more clever than Judah.
So, feel free to boil a young goat in its mother's milk. Jesus is A-ok with that.
How did you get that it was alright to boil a young goat in its mother's milk out of that?
Sure, he says you could eat the young goat that has been boiled in its mother's milk.
But nothing saying it's alright to boil the young goat in the first place, which the OP verse clearly states.
As much as I appreciate Japanese culture, they also created Oyakodon, which literally means "parent-and-child rice bowl". Like damn, Japan, what'd those birds ever do to you to necessitate multi-generational violence?
to clarify a bit, you get both the meat of a chicken as well as the egg of a chicken
I like Rabbi Joseph Bekhor Shor's interpretation. It's far from being accepted in Judaism - probably because it makes so much sense.
The interpretation is based on the fact that the passage originally appears in Exodus twice - but not in a section about Kosher laws. It appears in sections about Bikurim - bringing offerings to the temple:
- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+23%3A14-19&version=CSB
- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34%3A22-26&version=CSB
The very same verse that contains that law also contains a law about Bikkurim:
Bring the best firstfruits of your land to the house of the Lord your God.
You must not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.
Because these two laws seem so unrelated, Rabbi Joseph Bekhor Shor suggests a different way to read the second part.
In Hebrew, the root of the word "cook"/"boil" is B-SH-L - and this is also the root of the word "ripe"/"mature". Because of that, it's possible to read "you must not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk" as "you must not let a young goat mature while drinking its mother's milk".
This makes the second part of the verse a repetition of the first part - a pattern very common in the Old Testament as a (vain) attempt to prevent misinterpretations. Reading it like so, both parts mean "the offerings should be as young and as fresh as possible".
That reading is a little bit odd - but not too odd in biblical language standards, and it makes so much more sense in the context where the passage appears.
According to what I've read, the leading theory among scholars today is that this passage is a reference to pagan Canaanite rituals and we have some evidence in the literature of the time that this was indeed practiced.
You know what also doesn't make sense? Not boiling chicken in milk. I can guarantee you that's not the milk of the chicken's mother. The "don't boil a young goat in the milk of its mother" thing at least has a proper interpretation in the sense of "there were some people who did that and God came and God said 'yo that's nasty, stop it'". Something about not using sacrifice as an opportunity to practice transgression.
In the end I think scripture is just a tool for Jews to have something to argue about endlessly.
In the end I think scripture is just a tool for Jews to have something to argue about endlessly.
Considering how that's the main way to gain fame in Judaism - you're not wrong.
Copium at its finest.
I don't think this word means what you think it means... what is "copium" about discussing possible origins of dogma?
OP is literally saying "this widespread institutionally-reinforced religious practice/dietary restriction could all be due to a mistranslation", what exactly are they coping with?
The copium is coming up for excuses for why religious stuff doesn’t make sense. There is no one on the face of the earth that can reconcile passages from religious texts such as these. Sometimes data and dogma can not be reconciled and you just need to take things in faith.
I... uh.... what? This still isn't how words work.
I repeat:
what exactly are they coping with?
Who is coping here? With what? It's... an athiest coping with a lack of faith? A jewish person coping with flaws in their religious law?
There is no one on the face of the earth that can reconcile passages from religious texts such as these.
Uh... way to just miss the point of the entire religion.
All of Judaism - down to their goddamn rite of manhood - is built upon literacy. Reading and interpreting the will of God. Scholarly analysis of their own texts - reconciling the word with the world - is literally the foundation of their entire religion.
You’re not following what I’m saying and it’s fine. It’s not that deep. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Given how many homographs and other homonyms English has (and presumably other languages, I've definitely seen one Hebrew homograph when vowels are removed), it doesn't sound like a complete stretch for this to be a similar homonym situation.
More oats per oats
I have dairy in my diet, but when it comes to porridge, oat milk only please
Jesus was born 5-7 centuries after this was written down, he don't know either.
This would have come from a time when ancient Judaism was evolving out of its polytheistic roots. The early sections of the Hebrew scriptures tended to treat other gods as existing, but you're only supposed to worship YHWH.
Likely, there was some specific ritual that had been used in local polytheistic practices, and it's specifically telling you not to do that.
This is an issue for the sort of fundamentalists who insist that absolutely everything in the bible is useful for modern times. You say that, but then what's this goat milk thing about? How about all the idolatry prohibitions when many modern Christians won't regularly encounter religions that use idols? Why is there a whole book devoted to Solomon's horny poetry?
You can kinda come up with answers to those, but they will invariably involve some kind of "reading between the lines". That is, reading assumptions into the text that aren't explicitly stated. Which fundamentalists also say you're not supposed to do.
Then you extrapolate that and the only way to stay kosher is to never prepare meat with dairy. No philly cheese steak, no butter.
Strict households also have completely separate cookware, sinks, and even ovens/stoves. That blew my mind a bit when I first saw it.
There's more, especially with dishes and flatware.
- milk vs meat
- Sabbath vs the rest of the week
- Passover vs the rest of the year