this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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Shoigu added that Russia could achieve its military goals with "consistent implementation of the measures in the action until 2025."

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin and allies like Shoigu have repeatedly stressed the need to keep Ukraine inside Russia's sphere of influence, and to defeat what they describe as Ukraine's "Nazi regime".

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[–] athos77@kbin.social 132 points 11 months ago (2 children)

2025

Yeah, they're hoping to install enough Republicans in the 2024 US elections that the US will stop supplying Ukraine.

[–] MedicatedMaybe@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

Ding ding ding!

[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Seems the pentagon has no intention of stopping no matter what the legislative branch says, it will take the executive to tell them to stop before they maybe do. They might just “lose” some equipment in Ukraine like they’ve lost billions who knows where

[–] InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works 54 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Russia can end the war within 2 days, even now.
They could just... fucking leave and never come back.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago (3 children)

But then they reveal themselves to be weak and straight up idiots. Theres no going back until Russian people get their shit together and get the hold of their country but decades of brainwashing and indifference is preventing any meaningful change. It's a lost country.

[–] drewofdoom@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is it brainwashing and indifference, though? Could also be fear of a hostile government. Russia isn't exactly known for its fair treatment of protesters, dissidents, and activists.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

I just came back from SEA and it's full or Russians either running away from war or pretending everything's fine. Russian culture is just so extremely toxic that people have completely lost any sort responsibility or sense of understanding. It's all either somebody else's fault or "nothing you can change" sort of mentality. It's not just a few bad apples.

[–] Onioneer@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 months ago

They have revealed that already

[–] grabyourmotherskeys@lemmy.world 47 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I was told by some mouth foaming Putin fan on the other site that when the tanks were running out of fuel and breaking down on the road in the early days that it was all part of the plan. Yup, all part of the plan. Sigh. Turns out it wasn't and here we are.

At some point, we have to take the toys away from the children. No more war.

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 32 points 11 months ago

And that was followed by

"They haven't sent in their real elite forces yet, these are just conscripts to soak up the Ukraine forces and ammunition"

And Then

"They never wanted to capture Kyiv (of course it was not spelt this way...). It was just a feint"

And so on as each new copium point replaced the last one.

[–] fiat_lux@kbin.social 40 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I've never understood why people think wars will be short.

Number of global conflicts 'ended' since 2000 : 26.
List of those that lasted under 10 years:

  • Russo-Georgian War (11 days)
  • Wagner Uprising (1 day)

Number of ongoing conflicts: 59
List of those which are under 10 years old:

  • Russo-Ukrainian War (9 years, 7 months and 1 week)
  • Yemeni Civil War (9 years, 1 week and 4 days)

Numbers derived from this likely incorrect Wikipedia list of conflicts, but there's no way anyone truly agrees on the list details for something like this anyway. The overall point is, anyone advocating for War is advocating for a 10 years minimum commitment to destruction. And that's before considering environmental effects, long-term trauma, etc. Never trust anyone who says that any war will not last a very long time because of military prowess.

[–] flying_monkies@kbin.social 26 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Guess it depends on the definition of "lasts". With Iraq, Coalition forces rolled through the third largest military in under two months.

Germany need 35 days to take Poland and six weeks for Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and France in WWII.

Russia figured they were on par with other modern militaries for their special smoothbrain operation. Why wouldn't it be fast? 🙄

[–] fiat_lux@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I recall the internet claims that Afghanistan would be a few weeks, and also Iraq v2 - because of the US' military superiority. It doesn't really matter whose military it is in whatever coalition, or how much funding they get. It's all just long-term destruction.

[–] flying_monkies@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Don't recall anyone saying it would be a few weeks. Don't doubt some people said it would only be a few weeks, just don't remember it.

From the start of the invasion, it was two months one week and three days to topple the Taliban government.

Unfortunately, then next 19 years were apparently a waste since the regime that replaced the Taliban didn't actually want to fight for themselves.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 25 points 11 months ago (2 children)

They actually only have to hold on until Trump gets back in.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Man Americans really like to make themselves important like that lol

[–] aeronmelon@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

Sure hope they all grabbed a Snickers bar.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If Russia keeps this invasion up for another few years, they'll run out of soldiers. Are they expecting to put women, children, and farm animals on the front line when that happens?

[–] zephyreks@programming.dev 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Are people ignoring that Russia is substantially more populated than Ukraine? Ukraine isn't winning a war of attrition.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 14 points 11 months ago

But Russians don't want to fight. They want to win, just don't want to fight. Those are different. Ukrainians want to take their homes back or defend their families.

Lots of Ukrainians could leave if they wanted. There are Ukrainian refugees in lots of countries, so the path out is paved. I know I would already have left. The Ukrainians left in the country are not going to leave for anything besides nukes.

[–] Spzi@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If Russia keeps this invasion up for another few years, they’ll run out of soldiers.

Both countries can probably sustain these high losses if they are only willing to keep committed. If we look at WW numbers.

Just a rough calculation: If Ukraine was to send 5% of their population to the front lines, they could lose 200k each year, for more than nine years. Russia obviously more.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago

From what I see based on the numbers, Russia only has around 1.3 million troops (including reserves, and paramilitary, who already showed disloyalty to Putin). Ukraine has around a half million.

But Russian losses have been disproportionately greater, so they could run out of fighters sooner, if things keep up the way they've been. But considering that Ukraine is now getting more advanced weapons and support, Russia could lose more soldiers and high-value targets faster than before.

When you factor in that Russian soldiers have almost no motivation to fight, while Ukrainians have every reason to defend their home, things don't look good for Russia.

What can tip the balance is whether other countries decide to support Russia, then the world would be in trouble.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


In fact, CIA Director Bill Burns told lawmakers weeks after the start of the invasion that Putin's strategy was centered on "seizing Kyiv within the first two days of the campaign."

Shoigu added that Russia could achieve its military goals with "consistent implementation of the measures in the action until 2025."

But, 18 months into the conflict, Russia only occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, as well as the Crimean Peninsula, which it annexed in 2014.

Ukrainian troops are also pushing back hard against Russian forces, focusing their efforts on breaking through Russia's heavily fortified defensive lines across occupied territory in southern and eastern Ukraine.

Russian forces are coming under intense pressure from Ukrainian attacks in the southern Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia Oblast, with the Institute for the Study of War, among others, saying in recent commentary that Russian forces are stretched thin and that elite units are sustaining high casualties during counterattacks.

On Tuesday, the ISW said that Russian defenses appeared to lack strength in depth on a key part of the front line where Ukraine has made recent gains.


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