this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2025
134 points (89.9% liked)

Open Source

34663 readers
1304 users here now

All about open source! Feel free to ask questions, and share news, and interesting stuff!

Useful Links

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon from opensource.org, but we are not affiliated with them.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Cloak@lemmy.ml
kevincox@lemmy.ml
CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml
134
I don't know why but it pissed me off so much that they called gimp "freeware" (www.tomshardware.com)
submitted 18 hours ago by secret300@lemmy.sdf.org to c/opensource@lemmy.ml
53 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 3 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Freeware

Please don't use the term “freeware” as a synonym for “free software.” The term “freeware” was used often in the 1980s for programs released only as executables, with source code not available. Today it has no particular agreed-on definition.

There is a misunderstanding that the free in free software or FOSS refers to price (and is hence a synonym of freeware). https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.html

Others use the term “FOSS,” which stands for “Free and Open Source Software.” This is meant to mean the same thing as “FLOSS,” but it is less clear, since it fails to explain that “free” refers to freedom.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 1 points 30 minutes ago

As an ‘80s kid, I got freeware that was free from services that also offered try-and-buy software. Specifically labeled as freeware. As usual, there may be a definition that was agreed upon in the circles the author moved in, but on the consumer/DOS side there absolutely was “freeware” = free of charge.

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

It can be both, FOSS is just more precise. And just like that, I've used up all of my semantic pedanticism for the day

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 25 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

FOSS is always Freeware, but Freeware isn't always FOSS. Freeware don't mean other thing that the soft is free to use, nothing more.

[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 2 points 1 hour ago

FOSS is always Freeware

"Free software" refers to freedom, not price. It's possible for free-as-in-freedom software to be sold.

"Freeware" is always about price, not freedom.

[–] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Can someone translate this into English for me

[–] justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

FOSS is free and open source software, which is free to use and it's source code is disclosed and allowed to used to variable extend, often (definitely not always) owned by private people or non profit organizations. "Just" freeware is usually used for proprietory software, which is free to use, but undisclosed source, so nobody can look under the hood and see what it actually does.

[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 3 points 1 hour ago

"Free" in free software refers to freedoms, not price.

"Free" in "freeware" refers to price, not freedom.

The two are not at all synonymous although typically most free software is also freeware.

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

There's some non-freeware FOSS projects, especially in pursuit of some support. While the better ones either have an easy to use build system and/or just negwares if you download their "trial" version, projects like Ardour is a lot more involved. It has actual noise injected into the sound output, it has a convoluted build system (for which they don't provide build manuals - after forking, you'll find out it will also need a specific version of VS to build), and on top of that, an expensive subscription model.

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 hours ago

Non freeware FOSS don't exist, FOSS - Free Open Source Soft, is always free, but there are non freeware OpenSource apps, like eg. Proton VPN, which is OpenSource but not Freeware, only Freemium (server cost money), or also Filen, it's also only Freemium OpenSource, if you need more than 10GB storage, you have to pay for it. There are also paid OpenSource apps without free version.

[–] AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago

I use ardour all the time. the 1$ a month is well worth it imo

[–] stray@pawb.social 20 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I think y'all who are upset over the use of "freeware" are out of touch with how language is used in non-expert settings. Like, I'm definitely more tech-savvy than most people and I still didn't know about "FOSS" as a term until seeing it on Lemmy and looking it up. This just means "free software" to me and doesn't imply anything negative.

It even says, "the premier free and open source image editing software for multiple platforms" right in the first paragraph, so what's the issue? Do you think the headline will mislead someone into thinking that GIMP is proprietary?

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 points 3 hours ago

I don't think the issue is that it implies something negative, it's that it does a poor job of conveying the nature of open-source, ie free as in free speech, not free as in free beer.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.ml -2 points 3 hours ago

It reminds me of how inside people tried to claw back the meaning of the word "hacker" from general use as a negative. Sorry but that ship sailed a long time ago.

[–] gezero@lemmy.bowyerhub.uk 12 points 12 hours ago

If you got scared like me, you can calm down.

Still GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE https://github.com/GNOME/gimp/blob/master/LICENSE

[–] 3h5Hne7t1K@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

Absolutely correct, its an insult to everyone involved. Open source would do, or just call it free without the 'ware'

[–] DemBoSain@midwest.social 16 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Please explain. How is FOSS not also freeware?

[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Different senses of "free." "Free software" refers to freedom, not price. "Freeware" refers to price, not freedom.

"Freeware" typically has the connotation of being proprietary but it doesn't have to be. Most people call actual free software "free software," "FOSS," or "open source." I think this is a side effect of proprietary being the assumed default.

There is a misunderstanding that "FOSS" means it is freeware and open source. You can see that misunderstanding even in this thread.

[–] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

Unlike with free and open-source software, which are also often distributed free of charge, the source code for freeware is typically not made available.

[–] peregus@lemmy.world 18 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Unlike with free and open-source software, which are also often distributed free of charge, the source code for freeware is typically not made available.

It clearly says "typically", which includes the software that does open source the code.

[–] folkrav@lemmy.ca 10 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Interesting. I interpreted this definition more like an oval vs. circle distinction. The vast majority of ovals aren’t circles, but circles are a subset of ovals.

[–] stray@pawb.social 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Making me realize Spongebob isn't even square.

[–] __Lost__@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

No, his pants are

[–] stray@pawb.social 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

They aren't though. They're rectangular at the top and then have cylinders coming out the bottom. I think the heels of his shoes might be square on the bottom.

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Spongebob Prismaticocylindricalpants doesn't have the same ring to it

[–] Flagstaff@programming.dev 10 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Interesting, didn't know that. Ironically, I've unintentionally followed this definition anyway because I think open-source is so incredible that I always describe FOSS as specifically FOSS, not "just" freeware.

In fact, I've pivoted so strongly to FOSS as of late that I haven't even said the word "freeware" in... years... dang...

[–] balder1993@programming.dev 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

I think we’re naturally a bit suspicious of freeware as “misleading” because so many old software used to be just vectors to install malware (mostly spam) alongside it. At least for me, I only trust it either if it is open source or it has a sustainable business model.

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 points 3 hours ago

yea, "freeware" has that suspicious connotation to me as well. The mark of an era

[–] Cyclist@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

You pay for it by interfering in corporate profits and therefore innovation! Linux stole from Microsoft! And because they did we now have Windows 11.

I hope I don't need a slash s?

[–] lka1988@sh.itjust.works 33 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Freeware = Free software

Technically true.

[–] bizdelnick@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 hours ago

Nope. Free beer ≠ free speech.

[–] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 18 hours ago (7 children)
[–] peregus@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I've read the first part and it's all "most often", "may be", so, technically, FOSS software is under the freeware umbrella.

[–] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Makes sense. In my mind when I think freeware tho I think discord, Spotify, free to use apps that have subscriptions and are proprietary. So I don't like that GIMP is labeled with those

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 34 minutes ago

It doesn't even have to be something with subscriptions. Hardware drivers are (usually) freeware too for example. AMD is an unusual exception to that being open source. Then you have IK Multimedia who include a license key for their drivers and charge $50 to transfer it, and won't even let the new owner of a product pay that if they bought it second-hand. Ask me how I know.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 26 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

I mean they call it out in the article that it's free and open source. Hey it might get someone looking for freeware to get gimp instead.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›