It would just lead to the decay of society where nobody is responsible for their own commitments.
this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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Two people both wanting to cancel, forcing themselves to go to something neither of them want to be at, is truly the backbone of society.
When you phrase it like that, it sounds ridiculous. But for me, social events are a lot like going to the gym. It makes me anxious, I don't want to do it, I find reasons to avoid it, and then I'm glad I did it.
It's hard working up the motivation. It's easy to make excuses. Ultimately, it's good for my physical and mental well-being to get out of the house and see people. Having another way to weasel out of it guilt-free would be a net negative on my life for sure.
This is a really interesting take because the majority of negative reactions to this post are "why would anyone need this just cancel you coward don't you know how to talk to people" while yours is "yes I understand the point and would want to use this if it existed, therefore it must not exist because it's bad for me" lmao
I mean, they could both have a little more backbone themselves and actually say to each other, "Oh wait. I don't actually want to go out today. Maybe we can plan something in the future. Have a good night/day/whatever." That's simply too much to ask though I guess.
I've met a lot of friends and found a bunch of hobbies by forcing myself to go to something I didn't think i wanted to go to, or was too nervous to attend because I was afraid of canceling.
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All civilization was just an attempt to avoid looking like a douche.
DON'T CANCEL PLANS.
This message brought to you by the Space Pope.
Insecure people would game it. Every time you make plans with someone, hit the button. Then get mad if they hit theirs too.
That's not insecurity, that's straight-up dysfunctional.
I don't understand how so many people are so bad at, well, this part of life
A. Don't make plans you don't actually want to do B. Communicate openly and honestly. If something comes up or if you change your mind
Some people are like "oh but that's hard and awkward" to which I say go fuck yourself. You're making the world shittier for everyone.
I'm so tired of living in a world where so many people absolutely do not have their shit together.
ADHD is a hell of an impulsivity multiplier. Everything sounds amazing at the time…when it comes to doing the actual thing, it can seem like climbing Mt. Everest. Time also works differently for some of us (Time Blindness fucks up much more than just this one area of our lives). As a result, when we make plans, those plans are “out there” or “some other time in the future” or “not now”. So when it comes time to do the thing, you forgot it was ever going to happen. Dates and days are hard to keep track of, too. Things have either already happened, are happening now, or are some nebulous blob of “will happen at some point”…which doesn’t quantify anything at all.
As a result, when things go from “future” to “now”, we’re often caught by surprise and haven’t been anticipating it, so we don’t prepare. Maybe we planned to sleep in that day, etc, and when you get a reminder the night before, it can be very jarring.
I hope I’m not making this sound stupid, it’s hard to explain but it is a real thing. And no amount of reminders or calendars or alerts will “cure” it…they help, but you can’t plan for every occurrence and some apps won’t let you set multiple alarms a week out, a few days out, 1 day, hours, etc. It’s limited to 1 or 2 that are pre-programmed, and if you want more you have to manually input them all them every time. Not easy to do when you’re in the middle of paying your bill after a doctor’s visit with other people waiting behind you.
It sucks.
Thanks for the reply. It was informative and helpful.
I really struggle to imagine what that's like. It's like you're telling me sometimes you forget to swallow and you end up with a lot of mystery food in your mouth. Scheduling is trivial for me, and it often feels like when people screw it up it's from negligence or apathy. Even if it's not.
And as the person who's getting flaked on or ghosted, it sucks. We made plans. I set aside time on Saturday for this thing together, and then you bail at the last minute because you forgot you had other stuff? Fucking hell, now my Saturday is fucked up.
Even if the flakiness is a medical problem, the pain and frustration is causes other people is real.
Thank you for being so civil and understanding, I appreciate it.
And I know that is not fair to my friends and family - I wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD until I was an adult (as is common with women because we’re not “typically” hyper like boys when we’re young). As a result, I didn’t know what this was and I often got told by others how disrespectful it was to always be late. I took that seriously and tried to fix the problem - extra alarms/reminders, every physical and electronic calendar/alert thing I could find. I would write dates and times on my hand because I knew I was guaranteed to see it (but showers screw that up if I don’t remember to add it when I get out; I keep a pen and a sticky pad in the barhroom).
None of it works; my mom and SO collaborate and told me things were 30 mins earlier than their actual time so that I wouldn’t be late.
The best I could figure for events that day is that I consistently underestimate how long it will take me to get ready - ADHD also means you have to spend an equal amount of time searching for items you planned to wear/bring because they’re never where you thought they would be…ever.
The other thing for “day of” is *overestimating” how much time exactly 5 mins, 10 mins, etc actually takes to pass, so I always think I have more time than I actually do. It’s weird and frustrating & has cost me a lot of money in just late doctor appointment fees alone over the years.
I don’t know what else I can do at this point - my brain just doesn’t have the capability to keep time straight like other people do. It impacts my work life, social life, relationship life, family life, school life, etc. Is that a bill I need to pay? Yep. Is it due now? Nope…boom it goes into the abyss of “stuff in the future/not now”. It can be debilitating sometimes; luckily my partner is neurotypical and takes care of a lot of it for me. If they weren’t around, I would have to get some sort of personal assistant just for personal life duties. And that’s embarrassing to admit because I’m well into adulthood and have a “good” job with a lot of responsibilities. That’s why I typically never mention it at work.
We know that, and we hate it, but that doesn't make the problem go away. Shit sucks for us, too, and getting yelled at for it doesn't make anything better. It's why a lot of us will just limit our circles to people who understand from direct experience, and not make plans with people who don't have the 'flake' trait.
I probably owe some of the people who read my post at the top of this thread an apology. It was mostly an outburst from years of frustration.
I know intellectually most people are trying their best. I shouldn't take my frustrations out on random Internet people. I did a bad and I apologize.
The thing is, your feelings are valid too. So it's all complicated and we just have to make the best of it.
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The upside of ADHD people, is that our relationship decay modifier tends to be low or zero; meaning I can go a year or more not talking to someone and still be just as happy to see them as if we'd be regularly hanging out that whole time. I know it sucks for people on the other end (if they're not ADHD; if they are, well, they're probably the same way as me), but I legit forget people exist. I don't notice time passing until I do, and then I start to panic because I realize how much time I've spent doing nothing. Then eventually something takes my mind off that and I go back to not realizing how much time is passing.
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Omg you’ve described my brain to a T! 😆
The future is always some nebulous thing where some stuff is going to happen, but it’s not Right Now. Who knows when those future things will jump out of Future Land and become Right Now? Like, I literally got a C in pre calculus even though I Aced every exam, because I forgot to do my homework. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. 🤦🏻♀️
Thankfully smartphones with calendars and alarms now exist!
But navigation? I can find my way back to a place I visited just once. I never get lost, so at least I have that superpower 😅 🗺️
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Yeah, I'm in a management role and manage people with ADHD. Everyone is different, but what seems to work is getting into a routine. When every day follows a pattern, whatever planning tool you like can work since you can include it in the routine. For example, this could be your day:
- Check schedule
- Have breakfast
- Go to work
- Check schedule
- Attend any morning meetings
- Do work
- Morning break
- Check schedule
- Do work
- Have lunch
- Check schedule
- Do work
- Afternoon break
- Check schedule
- Do work
And so on. Basically, check that schedule throughout the day and have fixed points during the day where you can reset if you get off track.
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People are conditioned to pretend to agree and to pretend to care. Much of school is about teaching students to pretend to listen or pretend to agree. When someone asks "How are you?" usually they are pretending to care.
It can be annoying when someone pretends to want do something to instead of being honest, but it can also be annoying for to the event planner to plan an event only for no one to want to participate.
When the people around you are routinely dishonest(in subtle ways), as is common in school, work or society, it feels necessary to adapt the same behavior to conform to the norm.
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Or you could just ...y'know... talk to them...
Why? There's an app for that!
Only introverted people who dont want to do stuff anyways would download this app. If I had this app I would get insane levels of anxiety waiting for extroverted people to change their minds but if I assume the other person has this app then I will assume they dont want to regardless.
Its not that introverts don't want to, per se, we just aren't prepared at the moment to deal with others.
I take calls all day, offer IT support to entitled doctors. Sometimes I don't even want to talk to my wife after work.
It isn't her, it isn't anyone else having a problem, its just... I do NOT have the energy to mentally deal with people.
So much consideration, and empathy, and shit I just don't possess in great deals. I spend most of that shit at work.
Why is an introvert in a help desk position? Cause I'm fucking stuck here. I lost a GOOD job in the pandemic and I'm trying to survive.
At least I've upgraded my back up job source from retail to help desk. It pays better, has benefits, etc. I can always do it, I just fucking hate it.
I've just started being honest with people. That can make people upset too but at least the awkwardness comes to an end sooner. I hated being non-comittal and waiting for the other person to get the hint. It leads to having an incredibly small social circle but that's what I prefer.
Get out of here with your sensible approach to life!
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People would get upset that someone else cancelled before them.
You wouldn't know who cancelled before whom. I twould only declare results at every 15 minutes thats atleast 10 minute since last someone voted.
You could still reasonably assume that the other person cancelled first when the confirmation comes through. People may be able to figure out how long it takes, or they'll just imagine that's what happened and that'll be enough for them to get upset.
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It's culturally acceptable here in the Pacific northwest. We call it the west coast flake or west coast bail.
The real trick is to just never commit to anything.
Finally, a part of the world where I can comfortably exist
Alternative: pick up the phone, say "I don't really feel like coming"
Done.
True friends will still want you to come but understand if you bail out. If you have friends that get upset over this kind of shit, they're not worth having as friends.
You're not wrong, but social anxiety and social guilt are mother fuckers even when you know you have understanding friends
True friends will still want you to come but understand if you bail out.
True friendship is a two-way give and take. For some things, friendship means giving up some level of autonomy and self interest to provide something that your friend wants. In some contexts, showing up is important to the friend and a few repeated snubs/cancellations ends up communicating to the friend that they're not important to you. At that point they can start revisiting whether this is a "true friendship" or not and protect themselves by pushing away.
And it's not just not coming out. It's also the implied precursor here, that two people have made plans together. There's some level of reliance on the other, and bailing at the last minute is often seen as much ruder than just not agreeing to hang out in the first place.
Or, alternatively, the other person starts to understand that you have a preference against hanging out, like it's a chore or a favor. They're your friend, and they want to do right by you, so they just stop inviting you out and asking that favor of you, and then you drift apart and wonder why.
Friendship is about understanding other people, and empathizing even when their personalities and thought process are different. Friendships are hard enough to maintain past 30, and keeping them requires some level of conscious effort, especially for introverts.
Calling all programmers: LET’S FIND OUT!
I actually love this. So often I have a plan where I'm like "if you actually want to do this thing, then I'm here and happy to be there with you. But if you're not really interested but just sticking to the commitment because you're afraid my feelings will be hurt if you cancel...I promise they won't let's just cancel." But if I say this to someone, they could interpret it as "I don't want to go", which isn't true! If you want to go, I want to go. I just want to gauge your level of wanting-to-go.
Just have children, they are the ultimate excuse for any occasion.
Bonus points: My child is grown and out so no longer works as an excuse, but while I was raising her, I progressed so far out of my social circles that nobody ever tries to set anything up with me in the first place, thus negating any further need to cancel!
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The sort of people who need an app will still be upset.
This is just introvert porn. In theory could work but would never fly in the real world.
Insecure people would download this app, and prematurely 'cancel' all their plans so that they get notifications the moment anyone uses it. This app idea only works with the pretense of privacy until both parties agree, but it is open to manipulation. And once you know that manipulative people are misusing the app, you will police your usage of it, and then we're back to square one, where people are unwilling to communicate.
Yes, same thing happened with mojoupgrade. It's a questionnaire of sex stuff. You and your partner both fill it in. Then you'd see a list of all the stuff you both wanted to try. If either said "no" on anything, the other would be none the wiser. It was often abused (mostly by women) who would answer "yes" to everything so they could see the answers of their partner and give them grief about their wants.
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