this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2025
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Socialism

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I was a far-right lunatic until about 2009, when I started turning left. I have read many (center-)leftist articles from Jacobin, Common Dreams, The Guardian, and, from Brazil, Carta Capital and IHU (Catholic liberation theology).

Lemmy (despite my suboptimal instance) and communist friends got me interested in actual Marxism, but I have not yet really studied it. So please recommend:

  • The best Marxist Lemmy instance for my background.
  • Marxist books or videos in approximate reading/watching order. For the next many months (I suspect six months) I will have very little time, though.

Bonus:

  • reasonable tolerance of Catholic faith and individual morality
  • contextualized on Brazil, Cuba, broader Latin America or China

Background: Brazilian Catholic male autistic ADHD IT analyst with an electronic engineering degree and MsC in computer science. I have a son with my wife. I highly value privacy and software freedom. I read English well, but Spanish quite poorly. Native Portuguese speaker.

EDIT: I got a lemmygrad account. I am still processing the other recommendations.

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[–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Marxist-Lemmyisim.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago

Welcome! For your first question, Lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net are explicitly oriented towards Marxism (Hexbear also has Anarchists and other leftist types, Lemmygrad is Marxist-Leninist). For your second, I actually wrote an introductory reading list you can check out if you want.

[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

I translated the communist manifesto into a rap for people who want a quick intro https://youtu.be/0Rw0QvEjwuQ

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Hi friend!

For what Marxist instance would be best given your background, well there are only two total, to my knowledge, so you could just try out both and see what you like best! They are Hexbear and Lemmygrad. Lemmygrad is smaller but is more focused on Marxism-Leninism in particular. Hexbear has a ML-ancom and everything in between left unity stance and places great emphasis on making the space safe for people of marginalized groups. Lemmy.ml has many Marxists but is not explicitly commie.

For reading recommendations, this can be a difficult question to answer because there are many important texts in the Marxist tradition and some of them, particularly the foundational ones, are dense and challenging to read. I do strongly recommend reading the core works of Marx and Engels, since they define Marxism and later works are based on them. The order in which to read books really depends on how you prefet to read and learn.

I prefer to read from "the beginning" and already knew the relevant philosophical background so I just read Das Kapital right after The Communist Manifesto. But reading Das Kapital takes a long time. Reading groups dedicate months just to Volume 1. If you prefer a faster introduction and summaries, then I recommend Heinrich's companion text. Heinrich inserts some of his own opinions, but you can balance these out by reading Marxists critical of Heinrich, like Michael Roberts. If you want an even faster and simpler introduction, you can work backwards by reading short overviews from newer texts and blogs and so on and then make sure to try and tackle Capital later. But remember that the farther from the original works you get, the more likely that you will learn something incorrect about them without being in a position to notice it.

Another strategy is to start with Lenin, particularly his own notes on Hegel and Marx, and proceed to Stalin's overview of Marxism-Leninism, which includes an overview of Marxism. These are much easier to read than the source texts. All of the works so far will have Portuguese translations.

Regarding tolerance of Catholic faith, both instances will likely not care so long as this does not mean contradicting community standards, e.g. a vocal tradcath would contradict the feminist stances of both instances. Both instances have Christian comms, similar to subreddits. Lemmygrad's all seem to be inactive, though. Hexbear is, generally speaking, against insufferable New Atheist contrarianism (and so many of its original proponents became reactionary).

Regarding having Latin American context, both instances of course have a good amount of comrades from Latin America. I know that Hexbear has an active Latin America comm.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There are many Brazilian comrades on lemmygrad.ml that could help with materials in Portuguese, and I'm sure the PCB (partido comunista brasileiro) also has a good introductory reading list.

For a shorter english introduction, I maintain this crash course socialism that goes over the basics.

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Cowbee (auth, btw, jsyk) has an intro reading list: https://lemmy.ml/post/22417306

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Don't know what you mean by "auth," it's pretty standard Marxism, but thanks for linking it!

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I was describing your ideology more so than your reading list, in case that wasn't clear. Iirc though, you've said something along the lines of not feeling "authoritarian" is an appropriate political descriptor at all

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My ideology is Marxist-Leninist, the list I made reflects that. I agree with Engels with respect to "authoritarianism" as a concept, elaborated on in On Authority. Generally, it isn't a useful descriptor for many things, or rather it is so overused and under-examined that it ends up simplifying concepts to the point that they become more confusing.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

Liberty is the iron fist of the invisible hand, and authoritarianism is the tyranny of the wage-slave majority.

[–] within_epsilon@beehaw.org 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I don't really think this is a productive text to link. It's littered with historical inaccuracies regarding the efficiency and working class upliftment that happened and continue to happen in AES states (which are indeed not magical wonderlands, but really existing Socialism nonetheless) such as the false claim that Chinese workers cannot strike. Furthermore, the author appears to be making a hit piece, rather than engaging with the text to see if there's any value to it, and in this process there are several errors. Honestly, I think it ends up being insulting to Anarchists more than Marxists, and I'll get back when I wrap up.

In the first section, the author describes a production process requiring no authority, just mutual consent. There are a number of issues here. The first, it assumes a lack of consent in a Marxist system. The second, it overly simplifies production. When you create a phone, for example, there are huge supply chains at scales unimaginable by any given worker, highly trained engineers and technicians to design and maintain both the machinery and the phones themselves, armies of safety and quality workers that ensure the conditions are not toxic and that the phones themselves are working and not dangerous, production managers who run the assembly lines, and educational bodies that train the workers, including the engineers. These educational bodies need methods of accountability at large so they don't teach false physics, like V=I/R instead of V=IR.

Engels argument is that production needs "authority." This is correct, no matter how you slice it, you must restrict freedom to misdesign, freedom to spill sewage into the drinking water, freedom to slack on maintenance, freedom to not do lock out tag out on machinery during maintenance. Engels also is making the argument that this is consensual to have a functioning society of mass cooperation and complex industry, but the Author tries to pretend it isn't and that only "voluntary cooperation" is valid. The Author misframes Engels and in the process slanders Anarchists who understand that some hierarchy is necessary and just! The only other conclusion is that Anarchism must be of a return to earlier production methods where complex industry no longer exists, but such an aim would result in the resurgance of Capitalism.

This strategy is the same for the whole article, misframe Engels point that "authoritarian" is nonsense as everyone needs some level of exertion of authority (such as to prevent a nuclear power plant from exploding), and then pretend Anarchists want a Utopia where everyone magically decides to just voluntarily arrange themselves in complex production while denouncing "authority" and that nobody would ever disagree with this. It slanders the Anarchists I know are more reasonable than this, and it misframes Engels entirely.

I could go on, but I think I made my point.

[–] within_epsilon@beehaw.org 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I appreciate your points. I know we are of conflicting persuasions and finding ML's that engage outside their echo chambers is difficult. Driving our convictions is the common goal of communism: a stateless, moneyless, classless society,

For complex production any necessary hierarchies should be managed by the workers and not a vertical power structure like a party. Assuming horizontal power structures are incapable of managing complex production seems unjustified. Workers produce, masters exploit. Socialism should be ordered from the bottom up to prevent exploitation by masters. Any necessary hierarchy to ensure communication happens between autonomous workers should be accountable from the bottom. A QA worker can let others know there are issues without a boss.

Engel's argues tools have authority over workers, thereby authority is unavoidable. The author of the linked essay would thereby push that to, "I need to breathe; Engel's says authority" which may be hyperbole. If I constrain someone's airway, they no longer have "power to" breathe and I have "power over" their ability to breathe. Authority thereby cannot be defined as natural like breathing or tool use. Authority instead is a constraint on "power to" imparted by another with "power over". I do not need a boss to tell me when to breathe.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

For what it's worth, I used to be an Anarchist, so it's easier for me to see why Anarchists think the way they do and point out misconceptions about Marxism I had before really diving into theory. I hope you'll see that this is out of a place of trying to correct misconceptions, and not some smug "I've read more than you so my power level is higher" nonsense. Additionally, the jab at MLs is unnecessary in my opinion, and inaccurate.

First, Communism. Marxists and Anarchists have a fundamentally different view of what the State is, and therefore what Communism looks like. For Marxists, the State is an instrument of class oppression, while for Anarchists its a monopoly on violence and a tool of hierarchy. The conclusions are that Marxists seek a global Socialist republic with full public ownership and central planning, and Anarchists seek a horizontal, decentralized network of communes. This fundamental difference in class analysis drives the real material differences between Marxism and Anarchism, so when you say we want the same thing, that's not accurate, and makes Marxism seem nonsensical (why would a system trying to reach horizontal communes work through central planning and public ownership if only to dissolve itself later). If you have an inaccurate view of Marxism, Anarchism seems like a much better way to reach what this faux-Marxism seeks, but that's all it is, faux-Marxism.

Furthermore, the Marxist argument against such a commune-focused system is that such a system would have fundamental inequality in rates of progression, which would work to reintroduce Private Property and thus Capitalism over time (elaborated on in Anti-Duhring).

For your second point, the role of a Party and its position within a society. This is... confused on your part. A party can be better described as "top-down, from the bottom-up." When you say that the party is "master," this is just wrong. Parties rely on democratic infrastructure, like Democratic Centralism, and an adherance to the Mass Line. Much of org theory is based on effectiveness and maintaining connection to the masses, simplifying it as an "exploitative master" is false thinking.

The fact that you concede that some hierarchy is necessary (say, the QA worker should be able to halt production and stop unqualified products from shipping even against democratic consensus) means you can understand how direction can be necessary. A QA worker informing others that the products are dangerous, without authority, can be ignored entirely, you assume that everyone without fail will "do the right thing." Moreover, by stating that this hierarchy must be accountable from the bottom-up, you agree with Marxist-Leninists. I think if you read The State and Revolution, you'd fundamentally agree with Lenin the whole way through. The major difference is largely language. To quote Engels,

But the necessity of authority, and of imperious authority at that, will nowhere be found more evident than on board a ship on the high seas. There, in time of danger, the lives of all depend on the instantaneous and absolute obedience of all to the will of one.

When I submitted arguments like these to the most rabid anti-authoritarians, the only answer they were able to give me was the following: Yes, that's true, but there it is not the case of authority which we confer on our delegates, but of a commission entrusted! These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves. This is how these profound thinkers mock at the whole world.

The author has clear intent to discredit Engels, not to discern if he may have a point or not, leading to absurdity like the breathing comparison. You don't need a manager or director to tell you to breathe, but you need one to tell you that the latent chemicals within the products you are producing are toxic, as found by the QA worker, and production and shipping are to cease immediately, and to deny the necessity of this authority is to place the trust and safety of humanity purely in the good will of unaccountable individuals.

Overall, I hope you can walk away with a bit of a better understanding of what Marxists even want in the first place. I'd ask you how Anarchists would produce a smartphone, and how you think Marxists would produce a smartphone, and to see where the legitimate differences lie, not just language.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins mentions Brazil quite a bit.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

You might try also asking !brasil@lemmygrad.ml.

[–] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I know "real" Marxists shit on it because it's not 7000 pages of letters to local parties in Munich, but Mao's Little Red Book literally exists as an entry point for people of various cultural and education backgrounds who don't want to PhD Marx...

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago (8 children)

I haven’t seen any Marxists shit on it myself. In fact it’s available on ProleWiki.

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