this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!

Rules

Version without spoilers

0. Only post socialist memes


That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here


Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.


2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such


That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.


3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.


That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


4. No Bigotry.


The only dangerous minority is the rich.


5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)


6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



  1. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

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[–] Gork@lemm.ee 133 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I'm not saying violence is the solution, but [REDACTED]

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

"A lot of people say violence isn't the answer. Violence is a question. The answer, is yes."

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[–] RandomVideos@programming.dev 40 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If you had a genie, you could at least get rich-seeking bullets

[–] Microplasticbrain@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 48 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (24 children)

Get organized and read theory, comrades. I made an introductory reading list on Marxism, if anyone is interested but doesn't know where to start. Also taking suggestions for improvement! Honestly, I'm looking for feedback more than anything right now, haha.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Richard Wolff's Understanding Marxism any good?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Wolff is considered a pretty big revisionist. If you're intersted in learning about cooperarive focused economies, he's supposedly pretty good, but his understanding of Socialism goes against Marxism, ie he considers cooperatives Socialist but not publicly owned and centrally planned entities, when Marxists would consider the opposite to be the case. For more information on cooperatives going against Marxism, Engels wrote Anti-Dühring.

Think of Wolff as a Market Socialist that gets a lot of inspiration from Marx, but isn't a "Marxist." I'm not going to say that makes him wrong, but obviously I disagree with him and his interpretation of Marxism. I gave my overall opinion of inclusion of his works (and Chomsky's) here when another user recommended their works. The comment chain is useful IMO.

I recommend checking out the list I wrote, if only for section 1. Principles of Communism is very straightforward and easy to understand, and Blackshirts and Reds is a fantastic history book by Dr. Michael Parenti that helps de-mystify Communism and its mortal enemy, fascism.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 43 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Might as well get in on the action here with an intro reading list on Anarchism then :p

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Feel free! People can pick one or read both.

[–] superkret@feddit.org 19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

"Are you a communist, too?" the kangaroo asked.

"No, I'm an anarchist!"

"Great", the kangaroo said, "then we can be friends — until after the revolution..."

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

To be fair, throughout history it has been common for the two general camps of Leftists, Marxists and Anarchists, to willingly join the other and convert. The biggest problem is that it isn't a mere disagreement with means, but on ends as well.

Marxists seek full public ownership and central planning in a democratic world republic. This is "Stateless, Classless, and Moneyless" in the Marxist sense, but not the Anarchist.

Anarchists typically seek decentralized networks of mutual aid and cooperation, in a sort of spiderweb formation, a sort of "building the new out of the shell of the old."

Left-Unity serves a vital role in aligning in similar interests and achieving broader goals, but at some point these conflicts in desire must be rectified in some manner.

I'm not arguing against Anarchism, I'd rather people read and decide for themselves what they believe is the best course.

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You addressed this so neutrally that my bias took over and I assumed you were arguing in favor of anarchism lol

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Lmao! For what it's worth, I used to consider myself an Anarchist, so I'm familiar with common tenets like "Means-Ends Unity" enough to hopefully represent Anarchists faithfully.

My personal belief is that the more people that read theory of both the Marxist and Anarchist variety and actually put theory into practice, the more data points we can have, so to speak. Theory guides practice, which affirms or denies aspects of theory to allow modification of theory to be re-applied to new practice, in an endless spiral of repeated testing.

This is actually just straight up the Marxist conception of the Dialectical Theory of Knowledge. It's sometimes dismissed as common sense, of course, but this sense isn't so common. It's extremely similar to the Scientific Method.

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[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I wouldn’t call central planning “Marxist”, it’s just better for many things. And Marxism is about trying to find the best solutions scientifically to the issue of capitalism. Namely a revolution and a restructuring of society by the workers “in their image”. And practice of attempting that and building that new society brought new innovations and ideas.

Also, the end goal for Marxists, like for all communists, is and should be a “stateless, moneyless, classless society”. Not in any “words mean different things” way. In a “there is no more class divisions, no more commodity production and capital, and no more state or hierarchical authority. Like anarchists want as well.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be rude, but what you said is wrong, and a common misconception among those who haven't really delved into Marxist theory yet.

Central Planning isn't Marxist by itself, but Marxists want Central Planning. This is because Marxists believe Capitalism necessarily creates the conditions for central planning by competitive markets coalescing into large monopolist syndicates that already have to plan themselves. This is Scientific Socialism, a prediction of the future based on what the current direction of society is heading towards, and harnessing that via worker revolution so that these large syndicates can be gradually folded under one banner and run by a democratic government.

For Anarchists and Marxists, the State is an entirely different concept.

For Anarchists, the state is representative of enforced hierarchy, a monopoly on violence. Thus, it must be horizontal, but there can be different classes like the Petite Bourgeoisie who own their own tools or Small Handicraftsmen. Most Anarchists want abolition of classes as well, and thus usually also advocate for communes and Mutual Aid Networks with shared ownership.

For Marxists, the state is a representation of class oppression. Once classes are abolished by the folding of all of industry into the public sector, and there are no class divisions, the state is abolished in the eyes of Marxists, whithered to what Engels calls "an administration of things."

When ultimately it becomes the real representative of the whole of society, it renders itself superfluous. As soon as there is no social class to be held in subjection any longer, as soon as class domination and the struggle for individual existence based on the anarchy of production existing up to now are eliminated together with the collisions and excesses arising from them, there is nothing more to repress, nothing necessitating a special repressive force, a state. The first act in which the state really comes forward as the representative of the whole of society -- the taking possession of the means of production in the name of society -- is at the same time its last independent act as a state. The interference of the state power in social relations becomes superfluous in one sphere after another, and then dies away of itself. The government of persons is replaced by the administration of things and the direction of the processes of production. The state is not "abolished", it withers away.

I recommend reading or re-reading Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, which is the source of that passage (and explains Scientific Socialism). Hierarchy is not a problem for Marxists necessarily, but it absolutely is for Anarchists. Marxists believe that communes can result in trade, resulting in differences in material conditions and thus accumulation, starting the entire process of Capitalism anew, this is why Marxists do not want what Anarchists want, just like Anarchists don't want what they consider a state, but Marxists do not. For further reading on this critique of cooperatives from the Marxist perspective, see Engels' Anti-Dühring.

Alternatively, for a short, 20 minute article going over the same concept I just outlined but in greater detail, Marxism vs Anarchism is a good middle ground between reading the aforementioned Engels books and just my comment alone. Your sentiment is a common one, but I have yet to see such sentiment backed up by quotations from Marx and Engels that go against what I have just laid out. Normally, people who share your sentiment stop purely at the phrase "stateless, classless, moneyless society" and cease to dig in more to how Marx and Engels used those terms in their broader writing.

I am not arguing against Anarchism here, many Anarchists have tried to tackle the problem Marxists raised a long time ago and thus there are good arguments from Anarchists on how to avoid this, but the crux of the matter is that the 2 camps want what I outlined for them and believe the other to be unsustainable or unjust.

Really, I'm just a theory-nerd for Marxism, which is why I made my reading list to begin with.

[–] rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

The only real monkey wrench when it comes to cooperating are the Leninists. Demsocs, leftcoms, anarchists, and even succdems are usually more than happy to work with each other and not stab each other in the back.

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[–] squid_slime@lemm.ee 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Add links to different political party's and internationals aligned with leftist values.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Any suggestions? Alternatively, you could add them as a suggestion on the post itself so they have further visibility. I have a US POV because that's what I'm familiar with, and the driving reason for the creation of my list is helping dissaffected liberals radicalized by the results of the US election. If you have a non-US POV that would be appreciated!

[–] squid_slime@lemm.ee 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Got a few but tbf it would be better to have an easy resource to link with definitions by country.

Awesome work with this resource though, I will link it into UK leftists if that's okay?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Not a problem! I've been purposefully spreading it (though hopefully not in a "spammy" manner), so I encourage it! I just ask that, rather than copying and pasting, you link it so that all questions are held in one place.

That's a good point on the "organization list" idea, I just don't have the familiarity with orgs outside the US.

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[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

To add on to the theory part. Don't just read it, watch it too! There are a lot of YouTubers out there that do a good job covering it. Also, keep in mind if you're reading older theory, there's probably better versions of it out now. Stuff that has had more time to cook and is more applicable to what's happening today.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

He's really gonna want a high-powered sniper rifle and a lot of practice. Getting up close is how whats-his-fuck only clipped an ear.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Hey, give the kid some credit. Ironsights with manual rangefinding on a slope with the knowledge that SS counter snipers are about to show him how a professional does it?

I'd like to see you do better.

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[–] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 33 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

And compost the scraps

[–] Luffy879@lemmy.ml 24 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Finally someone who shares my violent phantasies

[–] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

Phantasies lol. (This message was sent with love and not hate.)

[–] Juice@midwest.social 11 points 4 days ago (6 children)

The climate movement has to get organized politically first and foremost. Guns are meaningless without a political program, its just fetishism. Not to mention dangerous. This is the most USA brained meme ever.

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[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Climate change isn't the problem.

Climate change is the solution.

To us.

The Earth has suffered worse than us, even other runaway, destructive mistakes of evolution that didn't play nice with Earth's biomes. See the carboniferous period.

A couple million year fever is nothing to our mother's 3.8 billion year story of life, it's how she heals, how she repairs from catastrophic damage from both within and without.

Life will go on, life is hearty, life grows and changes at depths we can't reach, in crevices we can't find. Life will end here one day, but not because of us. Our bodies will have long since broken down into those subterranean petrochemicals we love so much long before then. We're just a transient surface nuisance.

We'll probably stubbornly cling to scattered pockets of existence using the remnant tech and hardened structures of old when the Earth becomes overtly hostile to our extremely fragile bodies, but that buys a few centuries of struggle at most, and that's for the best given who we are and what we've done to the paradise we inherited and belligerently refused to foster, and instead burned with reckless abandon for individualstic greed and gluttony.

[–] pinkystew@reddthat.com 35 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I totally get this. But.

It's a tiny majority of people causing most of the damage. They have all the power, and they are doing all the damage. We can't stop them because we don't have any power.

Humanity isn't the problem here. The tiny cabal of selfish, evil people who are ruining it for everyone else are the problem.

The difference is that one of them can be solved in the other can't.

[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

I think handing most humans the toxic power of effectively infinite capital is a highly effective corrupting influence. Most people who, whether by action or inheritance, have the power that comes with hundreds of millions of dollars plus begin to see themselves as Gods above ants. For every Dolly Parton that uses their wealth to buy babies books, there's 100 wannabe masters of the universe that want to cut public funds to cut their own taxes to inflict their will on society, fully believing they're making it fair because they're willfully only considering their privileged position.

I don't believe a class of people with billions of dollars in a sea of people who can only accumulate a few million through honest labor at most over their entire lives can lead to anything but this. There has to be a hard, enforced limit on how much power an individual can accumulate, but we've branded that "punishing success" and even the victims eat that lie up, as the truth is those people profited from the benefits of living in a society, and therefore should have responsibilities to it as the "winners," but instead choose to declare themselves rugged individuals who did it all themselves out of ego.

Capital is power, power currupts, and currupting levels of power are not just tolerated, not just permitted, but celebrated here, with those that attain it deified, and those that don't deluded into chasing it or being shamed for not doing so.

You can't solve people having billions in exploited, society warping levels of capital being allowed to control that society, when the root cause and only solution would be to strip them of it and reshape the economy to tax all income above a level that risks capturing one's own elected/appointed regulators.

Not without the necessary, but painful collapse and rebuild poor people will actively fight against despite it being the only way their kids might have a better life. It's a paradox by design, a hostage situation with the gun pointed at the capitalist subsistence opiates, fast food, social media, literal opiates, etc, to keep the laborers laboring for fear of uncertainty.

How do you get people en masse to turn, as they need to, on the very concept/dream of being rich and sitting above society? People who've been propagandized their entire lives to see that as the highest and most socially encouraged of all pursuits?

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[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 days ago (3 children)

You ever find yourself agreeing with Agent Smith?

I’d like to share a revelation during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure.

[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I've always fashioned myself a cynic, aka a disappointed idealist, but I always had a hope inside that humanity would look in the mirror and, with the advent of information on tap, reflect and evolve.

The older I've gotten, the more I've come to realize that handing humanity infinite mirrors in the form of selfie cams just made humanity fall in love with its absolute worst impulses.

The Wachowzki siblings that wrote Smith indeed had humanity pegged dead to rights. And both of them are trans and therefore know the hatred in humanity's hearts towards what we see as the other firsthand, which just adds to their credibility.

Oh and I highly recommend anyone watch the Second Renaissance, 2 shorts in the Animatrix that documents the fictional origins of the machine war, and IMHO it is a highly accurate condemnation of how humanity would act if a creation of ours demonstrated sapience and begged us for even the simplest of rights, like to be allowed to continue to exist. We all know what we'd do right? Given what we literally already do to other humans using something as trivial as skin tone, net worth, or declared imaginary friend as validation.

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 2 points 3 days ago

The genie forgot to turn the wisher into a raccoon

[–] Rin@lemm.ee 5 points 4 days ago

In game ofc

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