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I'm a life long New Yorker, and I've watched with horror as Donald went from being a local joke to a national menace.
Beyond any political ideology, you have to realize that Trump is a thug and a bully.
He's hated in Atlantic City because he refused to pay so many small businesses. He'd come in like a white knight, sign a great contract, then let his lawyers screw over people who couldn't afford to keep fighting a decades long trial.
Yup. He’s well known in NY for stiffing workers from contractors to caterers.
He’s been charged in hundreds of contract dispute cases and over a thousand cases related to his casinos.
And this is not just a NYC thing, it was certainly well known in upstate NY and parts of New England. Given the stature of ridiculousness (gold plated toilets, bankrupting casinos, claiming to be good with deals while somehow getting away with outright fraud, one of the largest tax frauds ever) I always assumed this was nationally known, perhaps even globally.
This is why I never took 2016 seriously. Now we have the proof, we have so many of his own words,attempted overthrowing an election, four years of such destructive attempts at running the country, how can anyone be blind?
how can anyone be blind?
Conservatives aren't blind. They're fascist. They see these traits as positives, which is why they've chosen him as their most accurate representative for the last 10 years.
Conservatism requires a winner and a loser. No one wins without someone else losing. You can't get a right to something without someone losing a right to something. And for some reason a lot of poor people seem to think they are going to be on the receiving end of getting something from Trump. And those people, along with everyone else most likely, will get exactly fuck all. We're gonna get stuck with the bill just like every one of those people he fucked over. And we won't be able to afford it.
Dutch guy here. I definitely knew he was a terrible clown when it came to business, well before he ever ran for office.
I mean… he’s so bad at running a business, he had several casinos go bankrupt. And those are pretty much a license to print money if you run them halfway decent. He also failed at stuff like running his own airline and a host of other ventures. I also knew he was at one time involved with the WWE, I knew about The Apprentice, Home Alone…
Basically, if you were alive in the 90’s, you had plenty of opportunity to know about this clown of a ‘businessman’. When he ran, I figured it was a joke - a publicity stunt. Imagine my surprise when Americans actually voted for him!
Same here. Many of us in the us were surprised that anyone took it seriously
Yes. And because he's a fascist.
The background of every candidate matters. If the guy ran a casino into the ground, that's worth reading about if you're gonna hire him. Of he's a misogynist, that matters too. When you're hiring, you choose the best candidate. It ALL matters. You want to pick the best. And there's plenty of ways for a candidate to disqualify themselves. Weird Old 34 has lots and lots of disqualifying characteristics, with fascist in the top ten.
He has repeatedly stated during the campaign that he wants to use military action on people with opposing views (or “enemies from within” as he calls it). If that isn’t fascism, then I don’t know what is.
The more important question is why the media and the political establishment and the public have allowed ... for years ... an obviously sociopathic, unintelligent, unsympathetic, unethical, immoral, convicted and openly supportive or suggestive fascist to lead and have a prominent role in their national politics.
This is like asking why there's a fire in the kitchen after you've left the stove on high for the past 20 hours.
The problem is not that there is a person like Trump, the problem is a country that allowed it to happen.
I don't think the media was/is equipped to deal with the quantity of bad faith arguments coming from Trump.
If you look at historic presidential primaries, one mistake can be enough to have donors pull funding and tank a candidacy. In contrast, Trump was able to bulldoze through that because he treated the primary campaign as a business to make money.
Your explanation is a continuation of the fallacy .... (please don't take this the wrong way as a personal attack against you)
Your explanation starts off by accepting that someone like Trump is a legitimate political leader. The Democrats presented legitimate candidates, who did some minor faux pas and were ridiculed for it or the Democratic leader or politician was accused of wrong doing and then hounded for it relentlessly.
Trump was the anomaly, he said and did things that any previous politician would have been ridiculed and blasted by the public media of all sides .... but for whatever reason, everyone allowed him to stay in the limelight and never called him on his deranged antics .... everyone enabled his behaviour ... for years.
Someone like Trump doesn't come out of thin air or through the force of their own will ... if that were the case, we'd have people like him everywhere. People like him come to power because other powerful people allow him to get that position .. and then a population is conditioned to allow him to stay in the public eye through constant marketing and promotion.
Your explanation starts off by accepting that someone like Trump is a legitimate political leader.
At one point, Trump became a "legitimate" political leader. He won his party's primary three times and has won the Electoral College once. He is a convicted felon and he probably should have been one in 2016, but that is another matter.
And as for the rest, there is a combination of complicity and stupidity. Most of the Democratic Party thought he was an easily beatable joke candidate in 2016 until he wasn't. In 2016, Trump knew how to get ratings, which got him a lot of media coverage trying to cover him. And, as my point was earlier, he didn't have to worry about donors pulling out. And it turns out that being mask off fascist is something that a lot of Americans are willing to vote for.
I agree Trump has been enabled by a lot of people to get this far, but if Trump is anything, he is a great self promoter and knows how to stall legal action taken against him.
This is the classic argument or debate I have about political figures like this in history.
They don't appear out of a vacuum of their own will ... they are not just some all powerful persuasive figure that just pushes people to do what they want. Maybe that could have happened in the distant past but not in our modern world.
Political leaders today get to their position because others with power allow them. Money is poured into them, money to promote, to advertise, to market, to manage, to manipulate ... in short, the political figure of Turnip came to be because it was allowed by those with power. It didn't have anything to do with his ability to promote, stall or politically manoeuvre around.
He came to be because he was allowed to take the lead and those with power wanted him there and kept him there.
He came to be because he was allowed to take the lead and those with power wanted him there and kept him there.
That's assuming one all-knowing and competent group in charge, but reality isn't like that. Sometimes people in power don't recognize events in having significance in the moment or they respond poorly to the situation.
It is clear that Trump's election caught a lot of people by surprise in 2016, including Trump. It is also clear that a lot of conservative Republicans saw Trump as being willing to go along with their policies most of the time.
There isn't a single cabal responsible for choosing Trump.
There isn’t a single cabal responsible for choosing Trump.
I agree but the point I was trying to make is that there are extremist groups out there (and yes, they are sometimes reasonable business people or wealthy political backers) that often act in such a way to allow people like Trump to come into power either through their support or by simply not acting in way to stop anyone.
There will always be those people in power who are willing to allow certain things, events or people to just happen even if they know it will be terrible for others or run the risk of destroying or corroding democratic norms if it means it will serve their ends in the long run. The benefit of not overtly supporting terrible events or people up front is that you can plausibly deny ever being part of anything if it all falls apart. Either way, those with wealth and power maintain their control by either openly supporting things or just merely standing aside to allow things to happen even though they have the power to stop it.
Those with wealth and privilege win in any situation .... if fascists or authoritarians gain control, they can step in line as friends who had shown some support ... if authoritarians lose, they can step in anyway and say that they never supported anyone.
When you look at this way, you realize that those who are beholden to wealth, power and control only have an allegiance to one thing .... maintaining their power and control at all costs ... even if it means supporting those they disagree with or those they know will destroy morals and ethics.
I get that a lot of billionaires support Trump because he's going to keep taxes low and kill regulations.
Right and this election campaign is so much worse: at times he seems to be just an “influencer” huckster, spending his time shilling for any product that will pay him
How does anyone think that’s acceptable behavior for a presidential candidate?
It turns out a lot of Americans are fine with that behavior.
I’m fine with Spotify buying out his show and featuring it next to Joe Rogan where I can ignore them both, but it’s horrifying that anyone whpould vote for that
they are NOW asking that question? Jezus... He has been doing fascists things since he was elected.
He was a petty fascist long before he was elected and made no secret of it.
Yes he is one.
...because democracy is a kind of nice thing to have. It prevents a lot of unnecessary bloodshed.
Guardian really hitting all the tough topics today. "Is Trump a fascist? That might be bad" & "Guys, I think this Trump fella might be trying to pull something this year". I know it's not primarily US news, but come on. Have they been asleep for the last decade?
trump is an amoral narcissist with racist underpinnings. the fascists are the people steering him to the stage so he can keep all eyes on him and not on them or their machinations.
Ana Kasparian says no.
Which I found odd but whatever...
TERF to Alt-Right pipeline be real