This alone. : politicalmemes

[–] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 331 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I remember when I had my clearance, we were told anything we worked on was classified for a minimum of like 75 years, unless it was declassified earlier. I remember because they told is if we were 18, we could potentially legally talk about our work at the age of 93, assuming the classification wasn't extended.

Anyway, part of that briefing was the outlining of consequences should we leak any classified information. We were told if the information we leaked resulted in the death of an intelligence officer anywhere in the world, we could and likely would be tried for treason. And the punishment for treason during a time of war (Global War on Terror, amiright) could be death.

So... He'll be charged with treason like any of us plebs would have been, right? Right?!

[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 101 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Wouldn't it be great if Trump had to follow the same laws as normal people. He's a complete traitor to the country.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago (2 children)

At this point, I'd settle for even a subset of the same laws. It is somehow none of the laws.

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[–] mkwt@lemmy.world 66 points 4 days ago (2 children)

They were probably blustering about the treason thing.

Because "treason" was specifically abused by Britain, the US Constitution puts specific requirements on the crime of treason. In particular, there have to be two independent eyewitnesses to the treasonous act. Meanwhile, the Espionage Act has no such prosecutorial burden, and the penalties are just as severe...

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[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 26 points 4 days ago (1 children)

they will probably make an exception for him because he’s a Very Good Businessman. just think about what he may have gotten in exchange for the list of spies. perhaps some compliments from putin, maybe even a pat on the back.

[–] smayonak@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago

He probably got to avoid having sex tapes released. Epstein was probably working with multiple intelligence agencies. The Russians probably just paid the most for those videos.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 235 points 4 days ago (2 children)

sources:

"On 7/31/2019 Trump has a private meeting with Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/04/trump-has-spoken-privately-with-putin-least-times-heres-what-we-know-about-conversations/

On 8/3/2019, just 3 days after his private meeting with Putin, Trump issues a request for a list of top US spies.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-asks-for-list-of-top-intel-officials-amid-intelligence-shakeup

-By 2021 the CIA reports an unusually high number of their agents are being captured and/or being .murdered.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575384-cia-admits-to-losing-dozens-of-informants-around-the-world-nyt/#:~:text=Leading%20counterintelligence%20officials%20issued%20a,were%20being%20captured%20and%20executed.

-During the search executed at Mar A Lago the FBI find more documents with lists of US informants on them.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/10/politics/mar-a-lago-search-informant-documents-donald-trump/index.html "

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 44 points 4 days ago

for everyone: even if you don't read these give them a few clicks for the algorithm

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 26 points 4 days ago

goat

[–] ekZepp@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 children)

[–] JimmyBigSausage@lemm.ee 5 points 3 days ago

Yes! Reposting here.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 45 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Correlation does not indicate causation.

Though in this case, I think it does. It really does.

[–] Bertuccio@lemmy.world 16 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

You mean post hoc ergo propter hoc.

And the argument here isn't logical, it's heuristic.

[–] pinkystew@reddthat.com 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Please explain what this means? The rhetoric concepts I mean, not the subject matter

[–] Bertuccio@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Post hoc ergo propter hoc means "after this therefore because of this". The name of the fallacy is the claim the arguer is making, that because one event happened soon after another event, it was caused by the earlier event. A common example is that deciduous trees lose their leaves after it gets cold, so they lose their leaves because it gets cold. The actual reason is complex and has little to do with temperature. It's partly that day lengths get shorter and the leaves no longer can absorb enough energy to match their costs.

It is similar to correlation doesn't equal causation, but is more specific that it has to do with two events that happen at similar times, which is specifically called out in the tweet.

That the argument is heuristic and not logical is that logic has a pretty limited use - where you can reasonably agree on premises to make a specific type of argument that relies on how that argument is constructed. Heuristics rely on probability, what's the most likely outcome given a set of preceding causes, or what are the most likely causes given a following event. For example most problems in my line of work are from loose connections, so it's the first thing I look for when something is going wrong. You can't say "because I see this event it is logically this cause" but you can say "When I've seen this event before 80% of the time it was cause A, 15% of the time it was cause B, and 5% of the time it was cause C. So I'll check them in order of likelihood"

So the tweet isn't making a logical claim. They're saying it's unlikely that Trump talked to Putin about informants, requested the list of informants, had a list of informants in an unsecured place, but somehow wasn't related to those informants being compromised.

EDIT: Also Wikipedia has a better explanation of pheph: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

[–] pinkystew@reddthat.com 5 points 3 days ago

Many thanks!

[–] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 113 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And keep in mind, all of this is what we know publicly. Imagine all we don't.

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[–] Dorkyd68@lemmy.world 18 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Man. What a traitor. Anyway, is anyone down to start America 2.0 somewhere else with me if he wins?? We'll call it "no billionaires or Republicans allowed world" or something and our president will be the cutest femboy judged by votes obviously

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Will human/animal hybrid research be legal?

[–] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Okay, but just hear me out.

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There used to be a time when this kind of shit led to a swift execution. Now we can't even get the fuckface in jail.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There used to be a time when this kind of shit led to a swift execution.

Dude, that's absolutely not true. After the Civil Fucking War numerous rebel generals went right back home and ran for high office. Others got jobs as professors or retired to lavish estates that were never broken up. Still others founded the KKK. The Feds let it happen then.

Also, let's not forget Reagan feeding the Iranians intel during hostage negotiations. Or Bush evacuating Saudi officials after 9/11. Or any number of intelligence leaks from Congressman Nunes, Michael Flynn, Tom DeLay, the list goes on.

The only people we execute in this country are scapegoats, civil rights activists, and the poor. Actual traitors get to walk damned near every time.

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[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

Makes me wonder how far gone our intelligence community is. These are some of their own and they've done nothing to slow the spread of authoritarian bullshit. Ten bucks says they want an autocracy because there is some power they think they can weild that they think will give them complete control.

takes off tin foil hat

Wtf how did this get here? Damn aplphabets.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 8 points 4 days ago

I think its most likely that these orgs have factions competing for power and personal advantage,some people are going to think Trump is going to further their interests, others not so much. Some real ghouls probably recognize that Trump only wants power for himself which is a threat to their power.

I'm not an expert though, I just had a very interesting conversation with a civilian Air Force consultant, who said that his org wasn't very factional, but was very hierarchical. He was worried about very regressive figures coming to power because it affected the whole org, saying that the military had to stay cutting edge or we would face defeat, and hardcore conservative ideologues, or people like Trump who only care about their own wealth and status, tend to resist advancements and new methods.

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[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 36 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (7 children)

I'm not surprised that Trump has obviously committed high treason. That has been blindingly obvious since that Helsinki meet.

I'm surprised that he did it in a way that didn't leave a trail of evidence leading him to being executed.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

There are multiple trails of evidence to multiple treasons. Unfortunately the country is ridden with Repubs shielding him from justice. Repubs hate America since it is not yet a Christofascist dictatorship.

[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 6 points 4 days ago

It's like the Republicans saw the efforts made by scientology and were like: Wait a minute?

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[–] Mammothmothman@lemmy.ca 57 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This is why he needs to face a fireing squad not prison.

[–] HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

Make it a pay per view and you'll raise more money than the federal debt. We'll watch from all over the world.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 19 points 4 days ago

Fuck Trump, Fuck Russia, Fuck the CIA.

Its wild how a very rational anger and fear and concern about a Trump presidency becomes a very irrational support for many corrupt and downright evil organizations responsible for millions of deaths in the name of imperialism and profit.

[+] xtr0n@sh.itjust.works 59 points 4 days ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 46 points 4 days ago (1 children)

also, Trump is a rapist.

[–] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

src for those who are too lazy to Google: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000158-26b6-dda3-afd8-b6fe46f40000

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 16 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

you posted a non-Summarized PDF for people who are too lazy to Google?

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[–] cultsuperstar@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago

Non Trump supporters are aware of this and already aren't voting for him. It's his supporters that will ignore this because they don't care. They will vote for him regardless. Lots of them are voting against their own best interests.

[–] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 36 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Just Treason things.

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[–] neidu2@feddit.nl 36 points 4 days ago

BuT rUsSiA iS nOt An EnEmY!!1

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago

yet he walks. there is more behind him than we are allowed to see

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago (4 children)

You don't understand, he's not a traitor to everyone, he's standing up for 'Real America' against the real enemies, the libruls, the immigrants and the queers.

If you can't understand that then you must not be A Real American.

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[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago

We could power a clean future by attaching a turbine to Tom Clancy’s corpse.

[–] AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 4 days ago

And this is just one amongst hundreds of scandals of similar severity

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 9 points 4 days ago

Probably why tankies LOVE diaper don so much.

Besties 🫶

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago

And it changed nothing. Vote this fucker out of your lives.

[–] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Are there any sources for this?

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 29 points 4 days ago (1 children)

yup, dumps talked about most of this publicly, and the rest is confirmed by intelligence agencies and news outlets.

"On 7/31/2019 Trump has a private meeting with Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/04/trump-has-spoken-privately-with-putin-least-times-heres-what-we-know-about-conversations/

On 8/3/2019, just 3 days after his private meeting with Putin, Trump issues a request for a list of top US spies.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-asks-for-list-of-top-intel-officials-amid-intelligence-shakeup

-By 2021 the CIA reports an unusually high number of their agents are being captured and/or being .murdered.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575384-cia-admits-to-losing-dozens-of-informants-around-the-world-nyt/#:~:text=Leading%20counterintelligence%20officials%20issued%20a,were%20being%20captured%20and%20executed.

-During the search executed at Mar A Lago the FBI find more documents with lists of US informants on them.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/10/politics/mar-a-lago-search-informant-documents-donald-trump/index.html "

i'm pretty sure it's an open case that prosecutors are looking into.

[–] quink@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 days ago (2 children)

i’m pretty sure it’s an open case that prosecutors are looking into.

If I had a dollar for every "looking into" related to the Trump presidency that resulted in absolutely no consequences for Trump ever, I'd have... all the dollars?

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