Another reason to abolish cash bail. Either someone's too dangerous to be free until the trial date, or they're not. Their net worth should be immaterial to that.
this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
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Well…
The concept of “bail” is to provide surety that the accused will return for trial. This is supposed to be scaled to what the accused can both afford to pay, yet wouldn’t want to forfeit, motivating them to participate in their trial rather than fleeing.
Of course, it is hardly used in that manner.
I’m interested in hearing alternatives, but as it stands, the system is not working equitably because of minimum bail laws for certain crimes, etc. and inequitable judges refuse to use it in the manner for which it was intended.
So, what would you suggest as an alternative for someone accused of a crime to provide surety that they will return for their trial rather than flee?
In Canada, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms says anyone accused of a crime is innocent until found guilty and therefore cannot be held in custody unless the state can convince the court that releasing them would be a danger to the public.
Which sounds great, but bail is often denied because courts are easily convinced someone is a danger to the public. There is also a surety system but that's to ensure someone follows bail conditions. If the court agrees to grant a conditional bail, the accused needs someone to act as their surety. If the accused breaks conditions, and the surety doesn't immediately report it, the surety will be required to pay the court a very large fine. Not being able to find a surety is a common reason for bail being denied.
So, it's bail bonds with a different name.
Yes, except bail bonds don't exist, bail bondsmen don't exist, and there isn't a bail bond system.
No. Instead, you have to get a surety bond, which is a bail bond without bounty hunters.
Illinois has eliminated cash bail. It has had pluses and minuses but it has not been some huge problem like you suggest.
If they're likely to flee or reoffend, jail them. If not, don't. That's how it works in most places.
That’s not the purpose of bail, to determine whether they will or will not reoffend. It is purely a guarantee that the accused will show up for trial. That’s all that’s meant to be. Sadly, in recent decades, it is instead used punitively and very unfairly. If the prosecution successfully convinces a judge that the accused is a danger to society, for example, then they should be held in custody.
Whether the accused is even guilty in the first place is a matter for a jury to decide. Whether they are likely to reoffend is a matter that should be raised during sentencing, but only after a guilty verdict.
And I'm saying cash bail needs to be abolished, and only the criteria I outlined should be considered. I know what cash bail is for, I just reject the concept altogether, as there's no way to make sure it's fair.
A poor person would never make bail (or would need to go into an exploitative loan arrangement), and there's no number you could set for someone with the amount of wealth like Elon Musk that would keep them from fleeing.
First of all, a system of reliable surety must exist, and it must be applied fairly. Currently, as I’ve explained, it is not.
Second, you personal rejection of the concept is irrelevant. We live in a pluralistic society wherein the wishes of the individual must give way to any collective negative effect. A bunch of selfish jerks insisting that their individual “rights” are more important than than the needs of the many is not only morally and ethically bullshit, it undermines the concept of a cooperative, democratic society.
Lastly, for any society to prosper, all needs must be considered in equanimity. If you’re incapable of that, if you’re incapable of looking beyond yourself, you are destructive to society, as it is currently defined.
This is not a country of a bunch of lawless assholes doing whatever they want all the time. And turning this country into that would shortly precede its immediate collapse.
But if getting your way by any means be damned, is so important to you that you realize the cost would be to risk the collapse of western civilization, then I can’t see how that makes you anyone other than terrifyingly psychopathic.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.
Wtf are you talking about, western civilisation doesn't depend on cash bail, most western countries don't have this and they're not lawless dystopian hellholes. A judge can easily determine if someone is likely to abscond or reoffend in an initial hearing, and that's how it's done basically anywhere except the US.
Your argument is so disingenuous, it’s pretty much just a strawman.
I wasn’t talking about or even arguing about any of that. If you have to work so hard to recontextualize and misappropriate, what I said into a completely different argument, just so you can win, then you’re clearly not interested in a good faith discussion.
Best of luck to you.
End cash bail. Either people are a danger to society / flight risk, or they are not. Money doesn't make a difference other than increasing the flight risk.
Eh, while cash bail should be ended, it's disingenuous to claim there is no reasoning for it's existence.
What's the reason?
I just don't get all these old guys still going it. Who's 75 with literal criminal levels of libido?
Just fucking retire, man. Go play golf. Put the ol' dick away, no one wants it anymore, go enjoy some sunsets.
75 and can still get it up would do well at a retirement community.
Not all older people are sexually attracted to other older people. A 70-year-old friend of mine confessed that he's sad and frustrated because any woman he is attracted to is way too young for him. (He's not a creep who would actually bother younger women.)
I worry about this myself. I'm still young enough that I think women my own age are attractive, but to be honest I can't imagine being attracted to a retirement-aged woman unless she is one of those celebrities who have a hidden painting that ages instead of them.
People aren’t aging as poorly as they used too. Also, outpatient cosmetic treatments and surgery a lot more accessible then they used to be. I wouldn’t worry about it too much as long as you also keep up your appearances.
Sounds like unresolved identity issues. He should talk to a therapist.
I don't think so. Dial it back to us being mammals, and just like any other animal, we have peak sexual periods in our lifespans, based around promotion of survival. It is unusual to be sexually attracted to something that opposes survival instincts. I can only assume, but with fair confidence, that very few creatures, if any, have sexual attraction to something where survival of offspring is compromised or even possible. Obviously age is a huge one.
This is sexual attraction at its core. Instincts that promote genetics and survival. Let's not try to think we're better than all the other animals by suggesting intincts may be a mental problem. Not being attracted may be harsh, but it's normal in nature.
Nah. And gross rationalization.
As an elder Millennial, I have zero interest in someone half my age. Or younger. Which, by your pseudo-intellectual stretching-to-fit analysis, is not a problem, and some 50 year old man is only fulfilling his natural-born instincts by chasing a 23 year old's fecund womb.
Emotional intelligence and availability, shared experiences, and common ground are also factors in potential mates. Add societal factors like education, financial stability, and you're basically cutting out everyone under 30, given typical academic and professional advancement. Are you saying a 35 year old woman is no longer a viable sexual partner? Because that would be laughable. And sad, for you.
If you wanted to be more archetypal, then fertile figures will look more like a woman in a Botero painting, or Venus of Willendorf.
My pseudo-intellectual what?
I'm talking Darwinism and your retort is personal experiences in your immediate single-generational society, letting us all know what you are and aren't into in a partner.
Literally, the topic is physical sexual attraction. Read OC. Unless you're living life seeing grannies and thinking, "I really want to get to know them in case my pee-pee go boing-boing to their emotional intelligence and financial stability" I don't think you're immune to the same ~~nature~~ pseudo-intelligence as what's being discussed.
There's two types of elder Millennials, as there are all the other generations; those that jerk off to college porn and liars.
Note that I'm the original commenter rather than the one you're replying to. I don't want to talk about fertility but I do have a few questions for you.
As an elder Millennial, I have zero interest in someone half my age. Or younger.
I think you and I are about the same age. What do you mean by "interest" here?
Emotional intelligence and availability, shared experiences, and common ground are also factors in potential mates. Add societal factors like education, financial stability...
Those sound like your criteria for long-term compatibility rather than your criteria for sexual attraction. I think they are different things. I have met people who would have been great long-term relationship partners if not for the fact that I was not attracted to them. I have also met people I was very attracted to who turned out to be terrible partners.
Some people (usually women) say that someone who wasn't initially attractive to them became attractive once they learned what a good person he was. I was taught that judging people based on their appearance was shallow and wrong, so I tried very hard to make relationships with good people I wasn't attracted to work. They never did. They were doomed from the start and there would have been less pain for everyone if I had been honest with myself immediately rather than pretending that my initial lack of attraction didn't matter or that it could change with time.
He's 75, let him die in prison.