this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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[–] Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I just wanna be able to play Rocket League on Linux. Is that so much to ask?

[–] bitwolf@lemmy.one 2 points 1 hour ago

You can through Proton still. It still is a Platinum game even though Epic fucked it up

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 9 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I made my move just recently. It was rocky, I ran into some issues and some of them were my fault.

I'm willing to put up with it currently not because Linux has gotten markedly better, but Windows has decided (yes, decided) to become significantly worse. Microsoft could have done nothing and I would have stayed a loyal, koolaid-drinking consumer of theirs.

[–] mrcleanup@lemmy.world 1 points 47 minutes ago

I'm just starting out with Bazzite right now. Still awkward, but pretty painless, and all the gaming stuff like proton is already configured and baked in. I still need to figure out how to get stuff done though.

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

As a Linux user this and posts like this piss me off. Linux is NOT and WILL NEVER be a replacement for any other operating system (except maybe Minix). By implying Linux is the same or similar enough to Windows you bring in Windows users who except everything to be the same. Fundamentally thats not a good thing for anyone, Windows users get confused and maintainers are encouraged not to deviate from Windows even in ways that make the OS better (for example KDE not going all in on tiling to appease Windows users). In my option Linux shouldn't be recommended to anyone. Linux software maintainers should focus on the core Linux userbase and people who want their OS to look and function exactly like Windows/MacOS should just use Windows or MacOS.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

I just did my install of Linux Mint. I have a number of complaints that are really the fault of Microsoft, other things tripping me up that are just about me learning differences; BUT I still find there's some things Linux could take as lessons.

One of them is keyboard shortcuts. I learned Windows shortcuts because they followed intuitive logic, like what role the "Tab" key has and what the Shift key is doing to adjust its action. Linux apps often make up their own logic around this, which even if it made sense internally, doesn't work with apps like Firefox which are still using Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs, possibly to keep Windows parity. Then, since Linux is supposed to be built to customize, if I try changing the terminal to switch tabs using Ctrl+Tab...it just doesn't let you; pretends you didn't press anything. Stock boot of Linux Mint 22.

You're right that they shouldn't be changing just for aping the dominating competitor; that's how we unfortunately got Chromium supremacy. I still think there's gentle UX considerations they could handle more often though. Basically the type of thing decided in board rooms that engineers would lose interest in.

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

To the Kwin maintainer, I can see why tiling isn't a bigger deal. It's not exactly about copying Windows; it's more about not confusing most users. We already see tiling features, I'm sure they will figure out (1) more powerful features or (2) a way for other people to build off what they have. Let them cook.

I do agree that Linux will never be a Windows clone. There's no purpose in copying decades worth of bad decisions. Windows isn't great, it's just always compatible with hardware.

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

How exactly is tiling confusing? If people were willing to accept that Linux functions differently then tiling can became just another thing to learn. Its objectivity more efficient then stacking so why not?

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

If the tiling is automatic and the users dont know how to change the size of the window manually (if that window manager allows that).

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

What if on the first boot the tiling could be explained by a welcome app (kinda like what KDE has), it would explain all of the shortcuts and then you could bring up all of the shortcuts with a simple shortcut. I personally use Sway and I think i3 based WMs are better, I believe on pretty much all i3 based WMs its as simple as super + r for resizing mode and esc to leave.

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

I have a lot of respect for Sway and wlroots developers. They contributed heavily to the desktop Linux ecosystem. However, if you need to explain that much at first boot; you may overload some users. I'm sure tiling in Plasma will get better as they splify configuration and figure out better defaults.

[–] rekabis@lemmy.ca 2 points 14 hours ago

Well said. Then there is the entire ecosystem of programs and apps for which there is no real ability to install on Linux (and for which tools like Wine will either be buggy or even nonfunctional), and whose absence will just piss users off.

As much as I love Linux and BSD, it is really only for people who are either mentally geared to shift off of Windows or whose minimal needs won’t notice the difference; it is not a drop-in replacement for Windows.

For example, my octogenarian father has exactly such minimal needs except for one program: Quicken. Any bugs or issues running that as an installed desktop program on Linux would have him enraged and throwing the PC out the window. So he is still on Windows, and I am keeping my eyes open on how to properly neuter/excise Copilot once it drops.

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

whole ass countries like pakistan and vietnam are fucked basically

[–] Stomata@buddyverse.one 3 points 12 hours ago

You mean keep spyware off your pc

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 7 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Title acts as if once it's stopped being supported, the fucker will vanish or be unusable at all.

[–] georgemoody@lemmy.zip 5 points 14 hours ago

there are people out there still (willingly) using windows xp, windows 10 is gonna live on for the time being

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago
[–] john117@lemmy.jmsquared.net 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

can't wait for steam os to come to desktops, hopefully will happen before the end of windows 10 support

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago

From what I've seen, the closest thing is Bazzite. Steam OS, at least its current iteration, is really made for the Steam Deck, and I think Valve lost interest in keeping its own distribution.

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 6 points 18 hours ago (5 children)

Real talk.

I have been around long enough to know that this conversation has happened ever since Windows 7.

And each time and every time an OS EOL I spend time investigating a couple of Linux distros to try that switch.

This time is no different. From Redhat to Debian to Ubuntu to popOS to Mint. Each one is significantly better than the last.

But even 2024, I'm having to spend time inside the terminal to make the OS act more like Windows.

Tailscale has no native app. Gotta install it in the terminal. I want to use my touch screen in the browser to swipe the back button. Nope, I spent 2 hours on forums and ChatGPT and had to install something in the terminal. I was not successful. My Nvidia video card is not working properly. I gave up after.

Why am I spending hours trying to make my experience like Windows when Windows is right there. Sure sure, privacy and advertising yada yada. Install Adguard and disable services that you don't agree with.

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 14 hours ago

Because posts like these are fundamentally misleading, Linux isnt a Windows replacement nor is it meant to be (it also wouldn't make sense since Linux is older then Windows, at least the NT kernel). Honesty if you're trying to make Linux as similar to Windows as possible just use Windows.

[–] Derp@lemmy.ml 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Maybe you've been sold a bit of a lie.

Linux is not like Windows. Linux will never be like Windows. It is first and foremost a general operating system, not necessarily a Desktop operating system.

IMO, that means you will never truly be able to completely avoid using the terminal here or there.

Telling people that it's easy to switch from Windows to Linux is just not true. Linux just works differently and going in with the expectation that things will work the same way only serves to disappoint those brave enough to attempt the switch.

If you try again, go in with the mindset that you've never used a computer before, and without needing to depend on Linux for your day to day computer work. See it as a tinkering side project, and maybe it will stoke your curiosity enough that you'll want to use it day to day.

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 1 points 46 minutes ago

Absolutely.

Don't get me wrong. I am running headless Linux for my pfsense and home assistant. There is a place for Linux. But telling me I should ditch windows for Linux is basically asking me to stop using my PC how I normally want to and spend the next few weeks becoming a hacker only to give up and reinstall windows.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 10 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I deal with this issue every few years grappling with a new linux install. And then gaslighted into thinking it's a non-issue when asking for help. "No big deal, just copy these long lines into the terminal to install this thing that would take a single click on Windows". Like being obstinant is a virtue

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 6 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

So you're saying you don't spend hours on a new Windows install?

Or that things that take a moment on Linux may take half an hour on Windows, but God forbid it happens the other way around, unacceptable?

I mean, things that take a single click on Windows are apparently not all you do to make Windows usable, otherwise installing it and setting it up would take less time, right?

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 1 points 43 minutes ago

I have never spent hours on a Windows install. Full stop.

This is my routine. Install windows, sign in. Install tailscale. Change my trackpad settings. Done.

My Adguard takes care of the rest.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I'm having trouble seeing your point, would you kindly restate?

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

The point frankly was that I don't see your point.

Unix-like systems have Unix shell as the most basic and universal interface.

If your point was that it's a downside that it even exists, then you are basically saying that something you can't use should be taken away from those who can. Not many allies.

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[–] deltreed@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

I'm not quite sure why there is so much hate for Windows 11. It's a slightly improved version of Windows 10.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago

My main stuff is the forced-AI. I've watched the Start menu, the core of the computer, get slower and slower and just stop working because of infinite efforts to over-complicate it. Then there was that guy who tries to put out a simplified version of Windows, who found that removing the new Recall feature caused Explorer to crash - indicating the core of the operating system UI is now baked around that existing.

[–] raina@sopuli.xyz 5 points 12 hours ago

From personal experience, 11 can't do vertical taskbars and the hack that restores 10's taskbar isn't entirely bug-free and can be shut down on a whim by MS with an update removing the functionality.

From what I've read, 11 is a privacy nightmare with Recall and the ever-worsening insistence on having a fucking MS account to log in to your PC locally. Sorry I meant your self-serve surveilance and ad-targeting appliance.

Having to fight the anti-features and dumbing down of a piece of hardware you supposedly own to keep it usable and useful to you, not the mothership, with hacks of varying reliability... What part of that sounds like something you would want to spend any of your money or time on?

[–] Enceladus@lemmy.ca 5 points 12 hours ago

Removed basic fonctions access, forced unwanted functions installs and doesn't work on my pc.

[–] answersplease77@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Stop intimidating folks who just a computer that does work for them with "learn" linux as if linux is a programming language. Many linux distros are super user friendly and work exactly like windows UI.

Beside, why do you think iPhones, as dumb and as bloated and as restricted and limited and overpriced they are, still are the most selling phones worldwide year after year? It's because my 80 yr old mom knows how to use it.

Most people and professionals in the world just want a machine to do their work and are not intrested in learning progamming or command lines to do it. Nurses, doctors and surgeons, non-computer engineers, artists, business managers, ..etc, are too busy and occupied to even change the defaut settings or uninstall anything that comes with windows not because they love it but becuse not intrested and don't care. Add to those groups most, actually all, girls I've ever met in my life. They have different hobbies and learning OSes is not of them. It's like a girl saying "Soon Sephora will discontinue their HilightBrushExfoilioter and everyone who wants to wash their face needs to learn Mac's DeepBeauty routines". while dudes are like we know soaps but wtf is an exfoilating routine. Literally, they don't know what linux is, and it's not going to sell to tell them to learn.

So tl;dr: I'm saying the thing that sells would be Pop OS or Mint, or anything that requires the least or none learning curve.

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