this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024
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MeanwhileOnGrad

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Meanwhile On Grad

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Tankies take a moment to remind their users not to be misogynist (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 2 weeks ago by goat@sh.itjust.works to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

Meanwhile I made a post on a relevant thread yesterday lamenting that I had to block ml grad and hex due to the numbers of feral tankies, and that sometimes you even get fully horseshoed anti LGBTQ communists... but I left all that shit behind 6 months ago.

Cue two ml users lambasting and moralizing me about how its really sick to make such false claims and promote a culture of dishonesty without links proving I'm not lying.

So, 1, I can't link because I'm banned from the specific communities I saw that shit in and tussled with people in.

2, It was 6 months ago, but apparently the onus is now on me to go do all the work, otherwise I'm lying.

3: This fucking post exists.

Its continuously astounding to me that these people can do so much double think and brazenly use rhetorical tactics that have zero difference from what you encounter while attempting to explain to a MAGA cultist that the Storm is not going to happen or trying to explain to Ben Shapiro that brown people are not inherently inferior.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

It is zero difference because it isn't the economics that are important to either group, it is the authoritarianism with brutal punishments for the outgroup.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Not providing link: banned

Providing link: believe it or not, also banned.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

honestly I think most of them are yuri from st petersburg finishing out their shifts.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 24 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

shhh, no one point out that Lemmy's devs are transphobic

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

I'm new here. I don't really know anything about the Lemmy devs.

~~But...that tweet is not particularly transphobic? I'm going to take a hard look at anyone who uses the phrase "the transgender topic". But if that's the best proof that the Lemmy devs are transphobic, it's not terribly convincing.~~

Not really sure how I misread the tweet.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

The part about "allowing biological men to compete in women's sports" confirms that "the transgender topic" is not just a sketchy phrasing.

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, apparently I can't read. I somehow glossed over that part. Thanks for the clarification.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Things like that get parroted as 'common sense' so often by conservatives and our brains tend to start ignoring it as obviously false. Then it becomes easy to not notice the same phrasing in other contexts, since we are used to actively dismissing that kind of bullshit.

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[–] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The only thing I really saw was the talking point about amab people in women's sports, but I don't think that itself is enough to jump to transphobe, I've heard really good arguments and data for both sides of it. The hatred is the real problem (in that specific debate)

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm not going to form a solid opinion about someone with one tweet. I will certainly keep an eye out for more information.

(I don't think using Lemmy profits this person? I don't know. I care much more about supporting someone who may be transphobic than just knowing they exist.)

"Biological male" is a meaningless term generally used by transphobes. And the whole debate is transphobic on its face. Nobody cares about women's sports at all, and now people jumping to"defend their sanctity" are just goofy.

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

"Biological male" is a meaningless term

I hate being that guy, but that's false on a number of levels. If it was meaningless, hormone treatments and puberty blockers wouldn't be something ever needed as part of treatment for dysphoria or transistioning.

There's different bone structure signs often used in identification of cadavers and fossils. Different natural hormonal balances effect body growth and muscle development. They effect health risk factors and medical treatment in emergencies. Medical professionals don't ask about biological sex just because they want to trigger someone's dysphoria, they ask because it has measurable effects on treatment options.

There are measurable, quantifiable differences that can't be hand waved away by the idea that someone is merely assigned a gender at birth. To claim otherwise is to claim that people requiring medical intervention for their dysphoria are faking or overemphasizing the necessity for them, and that simply changing their clothes should be enough. Biological sex is something that unfortunately exists outside of the purely social contstructs around gender and gender presentation.

I don't have a solution in regards to the sports competition thing, and I hate with every fiber of my being that this shit has become a rallying cry for transphobes, but ignoring facts about the biological reality of sexual dipmorphism is denying that people can even have a mismatch between their biological sex and gender.

I understand the feeling that it doesn't matter in nearly every situation in life, but when it comes to medicine and body development, if biological sex didn't exist or matter than how could anyone need anything more than declaring their pronouns and changing how they dress?

It's possible to go too far and end up in a place that deny the realities that cause dysphoria in the first place, and you're there.

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Thank you for your reply. I don't think we disagree that much, but I'm afraid we may be miscommunicating a bit.

What determines "biological sex"?

Chromosomes? Except someone with Androgen Insensitivity may have XY chromosomes, but physically appear to be female.

Genitalia? But we have intersex people with ambiguous genitalia

Testosterone? Caster Semanya

Full disclosure: this seems more your field than mine. I don't think I'm educating you, just trying to clarify my point. It seems like you're arguing against "There's no such thing as assigned gender at birth". What I'm saying that there is no objective way to categorize all humans into neat little sex boxes. Biological sex is a spectrum with most people either at the "male" point or the "female" point, but some examples everywhere in between.

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

No disagreement here.

I believe most of the medicinal/health stuff would is assumed to be chromosome based, but I don't think there's been a ton of research into whether it's truly something genetics based from the chromosomes or from the long term effects of different hormone balances on someone's body over the course of their life.

Given how relatively new a lot of these dysphoria treatments are, I think we'll probably be learning a lot about where the differences actually come from in a generation or two as we see this stuff become more common.

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 1 points 2 weeks ago

When it comes to sports there really is not any question any more. Again, I'm not a physician, but any given sports body can determine what a trans woman needs to do to compete on a level playing field with cis women.

This is best evidenced by the lack of trans women superstars. Despite the Daily Wire's recent magnum opus, trans women compete and lose all the time in women's sports, it's only the transphobes who have a problem with them ~~competing~~ at all.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee -4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Its always this same argument. Did you know that more than 99% of people do in fact fit into neat little boxes. One cannot base their entire argument on the outliers of a dataset thats just bad science.

Sure u can have a spectrum but thats not really relevent for a majority of people situations or cases. Same as u have the spectrum of how many fingers people have thats a spectrum somewhere bwtween 0 and infinity but calling a gloves manufacturer Philangaphobic for not accommodating people is ridiculous.

At some point we need to decide where we draw the boxes and most likly some people won't qualify for either box so perhaps they can have their own. Ive been called transphobic for saying the trans should simply be lumped in with the disabled (for change room and bathroom purposes) i dont see how this is the case it just seems like a practical solution given the relative population distribution and well established infrastructure.

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Lol. Can't imagine why someone would call you transphobic for "lump in the trans with the disabled". LMAO.

I regret being so polite earlier. ✌🏾

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

Whata wrong with that ur not implying its insulting to be grouped with the differently abled arw you?

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

For the record, check the usernames, lol. That wasn't me.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

How is that transphobic? Im genuinely asking cos i dont see what ur talking about.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Same. That said, I also don't really care what the Lemmy devs believe, I only care that they make competent software.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I only care that they make competent software.

It'd be nice if they could do that. They spend more time ranting than they do coding.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, sometimes it feels that way.

[–] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

piedfed is a very good lemmy alternative using the same network. See this our very thread on piefed. It has more features and is faster.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

seems a bit empty. does it connect to the rest of the fediverse?

[–] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, I provided a link to this thread viewed through piefed in my last post.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

It's transphobic to call transpeople biological males.

It's very curious that Hexbear doesn't take any issue with this. They did take issue with it until the admins told them to not talk about it, and like good little free-thinkers they no longer do.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Turns out performative language policing does not equate to an actual effort against misogyny. Who could have guessed.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Gonna be real with you PJ, that's not any different from the rest of Lemmy. There's a reason TwoX couldn't get off the ground here.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

There is a definite gender imbalance and lack of understanding given to certain women's issues on here.

[–] Estiar@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

To their credit, they're addressing it.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Except this is Tankie land so that means they will remove anything not in there limited political narrative

[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It appears this is evidence the limited political narrative will remove misogyny.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's good... I guess?

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Of course, that depends on if the Komissar has the same opinions on what is considered misogyny as "you" (read: reasonable people). It could just as easily be poorly enforced as well enforced and frankly my money's always on the former with them.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

The fact they need to address it at all is a glaring issue. But they also won't actually do anything, considering it's a crucial part of soviet union doctrine to be a misogynist.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 10 points 2 weeks ago

Nice of them to take a break from calling for nuking 'the west' to focus on not being hateful towards half the population.

Does anyone know what irony is?

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 7 points 2 weeks ago

Misogynistic neckbeards? Say it ain’t so!!!!!

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Misogyny and hexbear go hand in hand? I'm shocked. Shocked!

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