this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 127 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Step 1.) Send a command

Step 2.) Go to lunch

Step 3.) ???

Step 4.) Get back pretty pictures from mars

[–] einlander@lemmy.world 60 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Didn't forget debugging, diagnosing, and reprogramming Voyage which has left the solar system.

[–] purplemonkeymad@programming.dev 32 points 3 months ago

Can replace go to lunch with come back after the weekend.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, that was seriously impressive. I worked flight ops for a while. I couldn't imagine having to re-flash software from that far away.

[–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 months ago

Not only that, but on a computer that's in an unknown broken state

[–] herrvogel@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

I know the frustration of trying to reprogram cheap Chinese esp32 knock offs that refuse to enter bootloader mode. Those nasa guys have to be some of the most patient people on earth. Up there with special education teachers.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm gonna need you to tell me step 0. I followed your instructions to the letter and all I got out of it was a very confused lunch.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well, first you invent the universe

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Okay.. Maybe step 0.9?

[–] rem26_art@fedia.io 72 points 3 months ago (1 children)

smh NASA's really gotta get an ethernet cable running to that thing

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 77 points 3 months ago (2 children)

fun fact, that would make the transmission slower.

According to wikipedia cat5 cable has a propagation delay of 5.30 ns/m, which works out to about 62% of the speed of light. While radio waves propagate at the speed of light.

[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, the reason ethernet is generally faster compared with wifi is mainly due to interference from physical objects between the device and the transmitter. Not as much an issue when you're issuing commands into the vacuum of space from large, high-powered antennas.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 5 points 3 months ago

hehe, imagine a tcp handshake with voyager

[–] Boxscape@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 months ago

Not as much an issue when you're issuing commands into the vacuum of space

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Radio waves always propagate at the speed of light, it's just that the effective speed of light in copper and glass fibre is lower than that in air/vacuum.

This means that if you have long cables at some distance you'll get a lower delay by using low earth orbit satellites like Starlink. Assuming a total distance via satellite of 1000km and the effective speed of light in glass fibre to be 2/3 c, cables over 667km will have a higher delay than the satellite.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 3 months ago

Speed of light in fiberoptic cable is slower than c for a different reason. The light is in something close to vacuum, signals travel slower than c because the light doesn't follow a straight path, it zig zags bouncing off the walls.

A radio wave or laser in reasonable vacuum (in orbit for example) will be lower latency than a signal on a fiber link the same length

I'm expecting lower ping via starlink than fiber once starlink has laser links between satellites

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

Some fiber-optic cables are faster than others, because they're full of air. Hollow-core fibers have a large central cutout and/or a close hexagonal packing of smaller glass tubes. The latter are technically a "photonic crystal."

[–] justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 3 months ago

It's not like they "play" competitive real time over there. It's more turn based single player

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 37 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'd be a lot more impressed in people were shooting at NASA's robots.

[–] BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'm obsessed with the idea of a slow-paced FPS game now. Imagine logging in once or twice a day, picking a shot and seeing if whoever it is is still there the next day.

[–] FierySpectre@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Once I had a board game that was a lot like this. You controlled robots on a board, and had to plan out like 5 operations (turn/step/...) each round. Chaos ensues when you have 4 people hindering (or trying to) each other.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)
[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 3 months ago

Richard Garfield's RoboRally!

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 3 months ago

You may want to check out Superhot. It's not nearly that slow, but the whole have runs in extreme slow motion.

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[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 37 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Do they have to race 12 year olds high on sugar and Adderall?

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Come to think of it, who are the real aliens?

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 32 points 3 months ago

Well NASA is essentially botting. It's not like they need to sit there and give it every input. They tell it what to do and it follows a program. I could bot with that much ping if my bit is running locally on the game's servers. Basically: NASA is full of cheaters.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 26 points 3 months ago (2 children)

In my day, we wish we had 100 ping. Kids these days think they're hot shit.

[–] asm_x86@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

For me these days my ping still jumps between 300 and 1k. 80ms is a good day

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[–] Guntrigger@sopuli.xyz 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Good job there aren't any bunnyhopping Martians to shoot with it.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

As far as we know so far..

[–] thessnake03@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Voyager has entered the chat

[–] zqwzzle@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 months ago

This’ll be perfect when it’s about 19 hours after the original post.

[–] anubis119@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

I understand that Voyager is nearly one light day away, but I can't comprehend it.

[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

It seeks the Creator.

[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Now THAT was the Voyager reboot we didn't know we all wanted until it dropped.

[–] therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You made up a bullshit punchline just to use this image didn't you

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 3 months ago

Haven't we all?

[–] Omega_Jimes@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 months ago

If my match was against rocks I'd have no problem with ping that high.

[–] Jimbo@yiffit.net 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

New Zealand has entered the chat

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago

Lemmy.nz has had some serious problems with federation with World, and a few other instances, because the way federation works, or worked, is an item would be sent, the receiving server would acknowledge receipt, and the next thing would be sent.

We ended up four days behind at one point.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

PvP - player vs ping

[–] Heavybell@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

If I get under 300ms ping it's a good day.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 6 points 3 months ago

Don't let your ping hold you back. I bought one of the COD games a few years ago and my PC would not run it no matter what I did with the settings (I think my processor was the problem). Usually it crashed before I even got into a game but I was actually able to join 2 of them and it was like playing a PowerPoint presentation of COD. The one game I actually able to finish I was still in the middle of the pack for k/d....

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We should put whatever latency compensation NASA uses in Vidya James.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 months ago

They don't use anything for their latency. I've looked into the space network they have, what protocols they use and what they do about the massive delays.... Just a little bit, I don't know it super well or anything, but from my understanding, the "network" they use is more about assurance than delivery speed.

The publicly available version of what they use is called delay tolerant networking, which essentially uses a mesh of nodes that may, or may not be able to communicate to other nodes at any given time. As messages are sent, they are relayed from node to node as connectivity allows until they get to a base station for final delivery. It's a bit like the mail system, but instead of large centralized sorting facilities, you only have local post offices. The message is sent from one office to another until it leapfrogs it's way to the destination. It can wait at one post office indefinitely until a path opens up to the next one.

In the case of delay tolerant networking, it basically sends it along to the next station in the mesh, and that station will confirm the delivery of the information, which is when the sender can remove the message from its buffer.

Ideally, the nodes should have some type of non-volatile memory (like nvram) to store pending deliveries, so nodes don't waste power trying to keep the information in their volatile memory (RAM).

Terrestrialy, we use DTN for tracking stuff like the movement of animals in large and unserviceable areas (where mobile networks like LTE, don't exist), such as deserts and undeveloped forests. As the trackers on the animals come within range of another tracked animal, updates occur, and when either gets near enough to a base station to upload the information, then the updates are sent out to the records systems.

Don't ask me how the logic works to figure out when to push data one way or another. I haven't gotten that deep into the protocol yet.

Anyways, for NASA, the information is sent to satellites, which relays to the rover eventually. In NASA's case, they can directly transmit, from Earth, using microwave arrays, to the satellites in orbit around Mars if we want.

I'm not sure on the specifics of how they have their version of DTN setup, so I'm only speculating at best.

They don't mitigate latency, they simply account for it, and work with that as part of the problem.

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