this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
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[–] giacomo@lemm.ee 49 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Haven't they heard of the american method? Don't they know the cure for X is more X?

We just need to add some more global warming and that will solve global warming!

Or is that just applicable to guns and debt?

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Nah - it'll just pivot to "Well it's too late now - no reason to hold back".

I genuinely wonder why eco-terrorism isn't already a meaningful "problem" - I don't mean "some protestors blocked a road for a couple of hours or flinged some paint and soup around" - I mean "You're working to kill all known life in the universe, and we're doing whatever it takes to stop you."

[–] sheogorath@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's no one funding it. If some of the billionaires can direct their money to make renewables adopted in the mainstream we can be in a much better place now. But, you know to have that amount of money the switch that also governs your care for the environment gets switched off too.

[–] sinedpick@awful.systems 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The problem is far worse than what any single billionaire can fix. Billions of dollars are being poured into renewable energy infrastructure. It's just that while this is happening, we're also emitting the same amount of CO2 as always. The only long-term resolution of this is de-growth.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Explosives and rifles aren't expensive. There's a reason the best funded military in the world consistently gets slowed up by insurgents.

While big funding would certainly help, this is more an issue of motivation (which expensive media campaigns would certainly help).

I'm not advocating for any of this, but as long as innocents weren't caught up in it, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it either.

[–] WaltJRimmer@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You joke, but I've seen those kinds of arguments, especially online.

Some time back, someone argued that global warming was a self-solving problem because the oceans reflect light and heat energy back out into space, so as the earth warms and the oceans rise, the ability to reflect that heat will increase and we could even go back into an ice age because of it.

That is, of course, not really how it's going to go. Massive ecological collapse and possible human extinction would occur due to the initial warming, first off, even before you get to the arguments about... Everything else at the crux of that.

For a long time, one of the talking points of climate change denial wasn't that it wasn't happening but that it was normal for us to go through heating and cooling cycles, so just deal with it and wait it out, we survived the last ice age so we can survive this heat wave, right? But again, that's mostly bullshit.

[–] deafboy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, the global warming is a self-solving problem. The nature will just make itself uninhabitable for humans.

Congratulations to the small, niche organisms, waiting to fill the gap left by the mammals!

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bad news to a lot of those organisms though, the Extinction Level Event doesn't stop at humans. I'm not sure what's resilient enough to survive. Cockroaches maybe? Rats?

[–] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

You ain't going to do a thing against bacteria. You could scour the entire surface and they'll just be like 'Welp, time to hang out underground for a couple of thousand years'

[–] paddytokey@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think snow and ice would be better at reflecting but we seem to get rid of those ice caps.. But when the ice melts, it cools down the ocean so of course, problem solved!

[–] Sodis@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

There is indeed an upper limit for global warming, because hot bodies lose more energy by radiating heat than colder ones. I think the equilibrium of energy gained by the sun and lost by heat radiation from the earth is at something like +5K in average global temperature. I doubt humanity would survive this though, civilization definitely won't.

[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The homeopathic approach to climate change. Great.

[–] menemen@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hm? The homeopathic approach to climate change would be to dissolve a tree in 100,000m³ of alcohol, pour that into the ocean and wait for results.

[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Homeopathic processes aim at curing by introducing a very low concentration of the disease, so effectively curing x by adding x. I think your example would make sense if it was oil or CO2 instead of a tree.

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[–] InputZero@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

I am so glad that garbage uses homeopathic rather than holistic these days. You want a doctor that takes a holistic approach, they're looking at your whole body not just their specialty. Homeopathic =/= holistic.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Redacted@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

*7 years earlier than the recently revised predictions YAY.

[–] kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We did it boys, cold is no more

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

We won the cold war

[–] RandomlyAssigned@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

We came, we cold, we conquer

[–] Ertebolle@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hope everyone enjoyed the coldest summer of the rest of their lives.

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[–] Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Side note, If you squint your eyes that picture kinda looks like a pizza.

[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The fuck kind of pizza are you eating?

[–] Restaldt@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

And if you close your eyes and imagine, EVERYTHING looks like a pizza!

[–] obinice@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

We did it! 🎉🎊

Just goes to show what we can accomplish when, as a species, we put our minds to a goal.

2.5c here we come!

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again, I'm not going to read that. It will just make me sad and angry a d nothing will change.

Politicians don't give a shit, even of they'd understand what is going on, they're mostly too dumb...

Things are going to get a LOT worse and nobody seems to understand that there is no quick fix here. "Yeah but CO2 scrubbers can..." no they cannot. Building those generates tonnes of CO2, then run ing them effectively generates CO2 as well. Think about it. Even if you put them on a solar grid (which too will initially cost CO2, not hugely important but just to keep in mind), the electricity that that grid generates to pull 100 tonnes of CO2 out of the air will NOT be available to other systems which will generate 150 tonnes of CO2 for their electricity.

Untill ALL electricity is solar, wind or nuclear, it literally is just throwing away energy. It's actually more efficient to just connect those solar cells for your CO2 scrubbers to the electrical grid. You won't pull 100 out, but now at least somewhere else won't put in 150 into the system.

And even if they work. Do you have any idea how much CO2 we currently generate, and worse, how much we have generated that is in the atmosphere that we need to pull out for things to get better?

The current state of CO2 scrubbers is close to carrying water out of the ocean with buckets.

You wanna pull the extra CO2 out of the air? We've been adding extra on an industrial scale for near 2 centuries. RHAT amount of CO2 is what we need to pull out to get back to what it should be.

You always have losses with conversions, but taking that the earth has beeb pulling more CO2 you can more or less say that getting all the extra CO2 out of the atmosphere will take at least the same amount of energy that we've been generating with burning fossil fuels for the past 2 centuries. Think about it, were talking spending energy to pull air through a system, spending energy to filter the CO2, spending energy to store it, spending the same amount of energy we got from bur ing fuels to split the c from the O2 (same process in reverse), then spend energy to process and store all that carbon. Mayke Plastics out of it, maybe? Storing co2 is a problem as the amounts are astronomical. Where do youbstire cubic kilometers of CO2 , every year? If it escapes your back to square one.

Yes, that is a shit load of energy that we can't produce all at once. For the next decades we'll have to dedicate 25-50% of our energy output to cleanit the atmosphere, there is no way around that, there are no free lunches here.

Electrical cars are NOT the solution. For a small part, maybe, but mostly not. Electrical cars require roughly the same amiunt of energy as a gas car, that still needs to be generated. We need to use less energy. Wasting tonnes on energy on transporting 2 tonnes just to move a 70kgs person for a few kms is just insane. Use bikes. Walk. Use public transportation.

You wanna solve the climate change crisis?

  1. make sure all central electrical power generation is solar /wind /water /nuclear within 10 years. Until we are at that point, the rest doesn't even matter.

1a) in parallel, start redesigning all our cities to become walkable. This doesn't mean the conspiracy bullshit that American criminally lying politicians are saying, this means that stored and stuff we want is close by. Cities will be primarily for people, not cars. You can walk to stores because they're close by. You can use bicycles to go everywhere we want. Public transportation can take care of the rest and with that we can get rid of 90+% of cars. Not because it's forbidden, hit because we'll designed cities don't NEED cars.

  1. There are loads of things that can't go electrical, like airplanes. Reminds me: BUILD TRAINS. FFS America get your shit together and start building good railroads. Then you can get rid of half your airplane flights. Most flights are short enough that a high speed train is faster than flying anyway. The longer flights s yous still need cannot go electrical. You'll need to build and run scrubbers spending the same amount of energy as those airplanes (and other systems that can't go electrical) just to make sure their CO2 doesn't add to the problem.

  2. increase our energy capacity by a factor of two. We need to generate twice the amount of energy (all green) so that 50% can go to scrubbing our atmosphere for the next, say, century.

  3. think about how to store all the captured CO2 or convert it to plastics or something.(double the energy required)

  4. get ready to pay 2-3 times more for our energy. We've been the party generation who have enjoyed cheap energy from burning crap. The next 3-4 generations at least will be paying the bill, that is if they get to live to do so.

THIS IS IMPORTANT, I CANNOT CLARIFY THIS ENOUGH:

None of us will see this problem solved. Even if we actually seriously start working on fixing this shit today, we will be long dead and gone before this is done. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX. It took centuries to get here, it will take at least a century to get back where we started

Anyone claiming that this is easy to solve, sorry, is lying.

This is the biggest threat mankind has faced and people somehow just don't give a shit and it is fucking depressing

[–] Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Everything you said tracks except 5. Renewables are already cheaper than fossil fuels, and that's with the subsidies for fossil fuels.

From a purely economic perspective fossil fuels don't make sense anymore, they're being kept around because fossil fuel companies are using immense amounts of money to fight against renewables.

People seem to forget renewable energy is essentially free. Sure there's maintenance and upfront cost but that's true for all energy generation. Fossil fuels simply can't compete and it's only going to get worse as we get better at collecting renewable energy.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No.

We're going to be paying 2-3 times more because we need to create enormous amounts of extra energy to clean the atmosphere.

That, and renewable energy isn't free either. Solar panels require regular replacement as they (still) degrade quite a bit (too much) over time. If I'm not mistaken, they still require replacement every 10 or so years.

Windmills require regular maintenance. The power grid requires maintenance.

Wind and solar requires enormous batteries that degree and require regukar replacements.

Renewables are only so so renewable, don't expect to pay anything less for the same amount of energy. Then now we will have to generate these enormous amounts of extra energy to take the CO2 out, who is going to pay for that? We all are.

So yeah, do expect to pay 2-3 times more for energy when this all starts, ideally tomorrow but likely 20 years from now as we're still not done partying.

[–] Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I already mentioned maintenance.

You people act like coal plants don't have teams of maintenance engineers onsite 24/7.

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[–] sirico@feddit.uk 19 points 1 year ago

I hope the corporation's and governments are ok poor loves.

[–] Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Apocalypse, here we come!

[–] TsarVul@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Writing is firmly on the wall, gang. All I see is patch notes for the wars for arable land meta.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Money loves predictible crises

[–] flowerofanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Climate change must be stopped by any means necessary. Start doing what must be done. You know what that means.

[–] PutangInaMo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What does that mean? I'm a little slow over here, but happy to help.

Economic sabotage and guerrilla warfare if necessary

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[–] frenchtoast@lazysoci.al 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] wtvr@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

Ha I've never seen the full comic before - only the first 2 panels. And I even own a "this is fine" plushie that I bought from the artist's Kickstarter some years back

[–] mayo@lemmy.today 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Since I read that this isn't an existential threat I'm feeling much more at ease, much less open to catastrophic outcomes and the narrative that we should throw our hands in the air and give up.

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[–] wabafee@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] cloud@lazysoci.al 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As long as nothing change, yes

[–] cybermass@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago

Even if we made massive changes today we would still have immense suffering.

We are fucked, the only thing we can change now is how severely we are fucked.

[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago
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